Re: [HT-rt] [[e-mail]: Call for Comment: <draft-iab-marnew-report-01> (IAB Workshop on Managing Radio Networks in an Encrypted World (MaRNEW) Report)]

[Amelia Andersdotter <[e-mail]>]

How easiest to draft?

i started something here:
https://github.com/nllz/IRTF-HRPC/pull/221/files#diff-989e50ba297c8bab8fe8fbd3759ac6d2


there's some semantics in this (first), and then i started the
evaluation by removing those considerations that i thought were either
already addressed, or that would best be addressed elsewhere.

i find it ironic that the telcos don't want to share their APIs /with
their own customers and users(!)/ out of competition concerns. normally,
i'm the customer of by telco, i don't compete with it.

but a big problem in the mobile markets could then be that vertically
integrated operators can be both mobile OS or mobile app providers /and/
Mobile Network Operators at the same time. Oh, if only the telcos had
lobbied for a competetitve market regulation(!) how many of their
current predicaments (and also end-user human rights concerns) could be
solved. but ok.

/end whiny transmission

amelia


On 2018-04-09 13:42, Niels ten Oever wrote:
> Hi Amelia,
>
>
> On 04/08/2018 10:19 PM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote:
>> I guess the task is to apply the Human Rights Guidelines from RFC 8280?
>>
> Rather the guidelines doc:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-hrpc-guidelines-00
>
> And feedback any potentially useful changes.
>
>
>> It's a workshop. As I read the draft report GSMA is defending their
>> regulatory and commercial interests, and IETF is saying "well, make it
>> work while stuff is encrypted".
>>
>> So do we mean to criticize GSMA's self-perceived political/commercial
>> interests from a HR perspective?
>>
> We seek to understand the potential impact for the ability of end-users
> to excercise their human rights, a consequence for that could be to
> criticize the proposed architectural reordering.
>
>> ====
>>
>> The workshop appears not to have touch on the upcoming ePrivacy
>> regulation in the EU at all, in spite of it having a fairly big impact
>> on many GSMA members. In particular, GSMA has been lobbying /against/
>> the ePrivacy regulation, in spite of the IETF helpfully solving many of
>> their regulatory challenges under the law.
> Interesting - this could fall under the privacy part.
>
>> Telcos are in the place where they want to sell amounts of data. HTTPS
>> increases the amount of data, making telco consumer potentially
> decreases, right?
>
>> unhappier. Encryption can also slow stuff down, and while some vendors
>> say that that's an issue of the past, it's possible that it isn't in for
>> instance the developing world. Probably Facebook Free Basic connections
>> have data on this.
>>
>> In some countries, notably the UK, telcos may be under obligation to
>> generally filter connections (ensure they're porn-free). I find that
>> policy disagreeable, but nevertheless it's there. For telcos it's a
>> challenge.
>>
> This has an impact on FoE. I don't think we need to have an opinion on
> everything from the get-go, but rather show the (potential) implications.
>
>> In Sweden, before the EU open internet regulation entered into effect,
>> several telcos were investigated for traffic prioritisation (which was
>> suspected to run contrary to ePrivacy directive obligations not to
>> monitor traffic). Ironically, the EU open internet law kind of permitted
>> commercially motivated traffic discrimination so those inquiries have
>> since been cancelled. The new ANACOM case in Portugal may change this
>> interpretation of what the open internet regulation says, but I don't
>> perceive Portugal to be heading in that direction.
>>
> Cheers,
>
> Niels
>
>> best regards,
>>
>> Amelia
>>
>> On 2018-04-08 12:30, Niels ten Oever wrote:
>>> Amelia know more about radio networks than I do methinks, but happy to
>>> do so if Amelia is not available.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Niels
>>>
>>> Sent from Blue <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=12687>
>>> On Apr 7, 2018, at 22:43, Shivan <[e-mail]
>>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I could take a look, if someone could work with me.
>>>
>>>     On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 11:36 AM Stephane Bortzmeyer
>>>     <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Obvious HR consequences. Any volunteer?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>         From: IAB Executive Administrative Manager <[e-mail]
>>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>>         To: IETF Announcement List <[e-mail]
>>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>>         Cc: 
>>>         Bcc: 
>>>         Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:08:39 -0700
>>>         Subject: Call for Comment: <draft-iab-marnew-report-01> (IAB
>>>         Workshop on Managing Radio Networks in an Encrypted World
>>>         (MaRNEW) Report)
>>>         This is an announcement of an IETF-wide Call for Comment on
>>>         draft-iab-marnew-report-01.
>>>
>>>         The document is being considered for publication as an
>>>         Informational RFC
>>>         within the IAB stream, and is available for inspection at:
>>>         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-marnew-report/
>>>
>>>         The Call for Comment will last until 2018-05-01. Please send
>>>         comments to
>>>         [e-mail]
>>>         <mailto:[e-mail]> and [e-mail]
>>>         <mailto:[e-mail]>.
>>>
>>>
>>>         Abstract
>>>
>>>            The MarNEW workshop aimed to discuss solutions for bandwidth
>>>            optimisation on mobile networks for encrypted content, as
>>>         current
>>>            solutions rely on unencrypted content which is not
>>>         indicative of the
>>>            security needs of today's Internet users.  The workshop
>>>         gathered IETF
>>>            attendees, IAB members and various organisations involved
>>>         in the
>>>            telecommunications industry including original equipment
>>>            manufacturers and mobile network operators.
>>>
>>>            The group discussed the current Internet encryption trends and
>>>            deployment issues identified within the IETF, and the
>>>         privacy needs
>>>            of users which should be adhered.  Solutions designed
>>>         around sharing
>>>            data from the network to the endpoints and vice versa were then
>>>            discussed as well as analysing whether the current issues
>>>         experienced
>>>            on the transport layer are also playing a role here.  Content
>>>            providers and CDNs gave an honest view of their experiences
>>>         delivery
>>>            content with mobile network operators.  Finally, technical
>>>         responses
>>>            to regulation was discussed to help the regulated
>>>         industries relay
>>>            the issues of impossible to implement or bad-for-privacy
>>>         technologies
>>>            back to regulators.
>>>
>>>            A group of suggested solutions were devised which will be
>>>         discussed
>>>            in various IETF groups moving forward.
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         HR-rt mailing list
>>>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>>         https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hr-rt
>>>
>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>     HR-rt mailing list
>>>     [e-mail]
>>>     https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hr-rt
>>>

-- 
Amelia Andersdotter
Technical Consultant, Digital Programme

ARTICLE19
www.article19.org

PGP: 3D5D B6CA B852 B988 055A 6A6F FEF1 C294 B4E8 0B55