Re: [hrpc] re how 8280 is being used for HR considerations sections

Looking forward to it - I could even imagine the framework you use to evaluate becoming an I-D by itself, similar to RFC 5218.

Best,

Niels

On 04-05-2021 11:24, Sandra Braman wrote:
> This is good to know, Niels -- and a very different statement from "can't include."  
> 
> However, given the other kinds of issues that have already come up with this draft, analysis of these documents will still be useful. The presence of particular individuals in a conversation does not necessarily mean that all of the matters that would be pertinent to the current document will necessarily have come up -- the conversation jumps from one topic to another, people have pet topics (understandably), individuals come and go in terms of attention, etc. I do fully appreciate the fact that I remain a newbie in terms of this group's process, but systematic and comprehensive analysis of substance is the contribution I can offer.
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 3:39 AM Niels ten Oever <mail@nielstenoever.net <mailto:mail@nielstenoever.net>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Sandra,
> 
>     Thanks a lot for your offer of examining those drafts. As a background, may I offer the fact that both authors of I-Ds that have been assessed, authors of I-Ds that used the guidelines themselves, as well as people who have done several assessment of other people's I-Ds using these guidelines, have contributed to the current document? So in that sense I think this document already lives up to what you describe as: 'the document should not be considered complete until uses people are making of the existing document for which the draft is trying to provide guidelines have been examined and insights they provide have been incorporated into the text'.
> 
>     Best,
> 
>     Niels
> 
>     PS You might want to have a look at several mailinglists to see how RFC 3552 and RFC6973 came into being if you want to make a proper comparison between those documents and draft-guidelines.
> 
> 
> 
>     On 4 May 2021, at 10:21, Sandra Braman <braman@tamu.edu <mailto:braman@tamu.edu>> wrote:
> 
>         Given the process, there is no need or reason to say analysis of this subject "can't be included" in the draft guidelines document currently being discussed. An alternative formulation would be to say that the document should not be considered complete until uses people are making of the existing document for which the draft is trying to provide guidelines have been examined and insights they provide have been incorporated into the text. This is not only within existing scope but a basic step, for would be for many the first step, for either a researcher looking at this problem or for someone who is writing a guide in a technical writing sense. 
> 
>         I'll do the analysis of discussions of the human rights considerations section in the 7 drafts that include these sections and report back as soon as I can. This should be a couple of weeks, and by then I'll have other thoughts on what is the current draft of the text at that point as well (with all thumbs up the option I, as so many, am hoping for). It will also be interesting to see the genetic drift from RFC 3552 to RFC 6973 (which opens by saying it is modeled on 3552) to RFC 8280; the 3552 I asked about a few days ago is the grandparent. Thanks again to Gurshabad for pointers as I am still learning my way around the document system.
> 
>             ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>             From: Mallory Knodel <mknodel@cdt.org <mailto:mknodel@cdt.org>>
>             To: Sandra Braman <braman@tamu.edu <mailto:braman@tamu.edu>>
>             Cc: hrpc@irtf.org <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
>             Bcc: 
>             Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 11:23:53 -0400
>             Subject: Re: [hrpc] re history lessons
>             On 5/3/21 11:15 AM, Sandra Braman wrote:
> 
>             > and what the reasons were for not ultimately including that section in
>             > documents ultimately published
> 
>             No one has yet done this research so it can't be included or cited.
> 
>             We do not have any current work items on it either but would openly
>             encourage and welcome them,
> 
>          
> 
> 
>             -M
> 
>             -- 
>             Mallory Knodel
>             CTO, Center for Democracy and Technology
>             gpg fingerprint :: E3EB 63E0 65A3 B240 BCD9 B071 0C32 A271 BD3C C780
> 
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> 

-- 
Niels ten Oever, PhD
Postdoctoral Researcher - Media Studies Department - University of Amsterdam
Research Fellow - Centre for Internet and Human Rights - European University Viadrina
Associated Scholar - Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - Fundação Getúlio Vargas
Affiliated Factulty - Digital Democracy Insitute - Simon Fraser University

https://nielstenoever.net - mail@nielstenoever.net - @nielstenoever - +31629051853
PGP: 2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488 643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3

Read my latest article on Internet infrastructure governance in New Media & Society here: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1461444820929320