Re: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt

Thanks for this Mark, I have been following this draft for quite a while and am really happy with both the documents and its progress. 

Some notes:

1.
Upon re-reading I found the apostrophe in this sentence a bit confusing:

[quote]
It has created wealth for some individuals and companies while destroying others'
[/quote]

Is the apostrophe there to indicate this is "others' wealth" ? Am not an English native speaker, but I was slightly confused about that. 

2.
I do like the gist of 4.1, but it could potentially be enhanced with a para that makes it clear that the IETF also doesn't always foresee the outcomes of their work. In this para it seems like only end-users don't understand what we're doing:

[quote]
   The IETF community faces significant hurdles in doing so.  Our work
   is specialised and often esoteric, and standard processes often occur
   on very long timescales.  Affected parties are rarely technical
   experts, and their experience of the Internet is often based upon
   incomplete (and sometimes inaccurate) models.  Often, even when we
   try to engage a broader audience, their participation is minimal -
   until a change affects someone in a way they don't like.  Surprising
   the Internet community is rarely a good outcome.
[/quote]

but I think that often we also don't really know what the outcome is. Engaging other people in the review of our documents also helps with that.

3. 
In 4.1 the text develops from 'Engaging the Internet Community' to 'stakeholder community', and also implies 'affected communities'. How are these communities differentiated and identified?

4. 
Suggestion in 4.3: s/access characteristics/means of Internet access

(especially since you use 'different characteristics' later in the same sentence).

I hope this helps!

Best,

Niels

On 12/7/19 12:29 AM, Mark Nottingham wrote:
> The IAB wanted to give this draft wider exposure to folks than just those on architecture-discuss; comment / feedback welcome (here, or on the draft issues list at <https://github.com/intarchboard/for-the-users/issues>).
> 
> Apologies if you've seen this before.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt*
>> *Date: *18 November 2019 at 11:43:38 am AEDT
>> *To: *"Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net <mailto:mnot@mnot.net>>
>>
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Mark Nottingham and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Name:draft-iab-for-the-users
>> Revision:01
>> Title:The Internet is for End Users
>> Document date:2019-11-18
>> Group:iab
>> Pages:11
>> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01..txt <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt>
>> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/
>> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01
>> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users
>> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01
>>
>> Abstract:
>>   This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider
>>   end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org/>.
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
> 
> --
> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
> 
> 
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-- 
Niels ten Oever
Researcher and PhD Candidate
DATACTIVE Research Group
University of Amsterdam

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