[hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research publication
avri@doria.org Wed, 08 April 2020 03:25 UTC
Return-Path: <avri@doria.org>
X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E673A0947 for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:25:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.5
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.398, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9qqrBBBkksWL for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0223.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.223]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86E163A0948 for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 20:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay01.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C58E100E7B6B for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:25:00 +0000 (UTC)
X-Session-Marker: 6176726940646F7269612E6F7267
X-Spam-Summary: 2, 0, 0, , d41d8cd98f00b204, avri@doria.org, , RULES_HIT:41:152:355:379:854:973:988:989:1260:1261:1277:1311:1313:1314:1345:1381:1437:1513:1515:1516:1518:1521:1535:1543:1593:1594:1605:1711:1730:1747:1777:1792:1963:2198:2199:2393:2553:2559:2562:2691:2693:2741:2743:2906:3138:3139:3140:3141:3142:3865:3866:3867:3868:3870:3871:3872:3874:4117:4184:4250:4362:5007:6117:6119:7652:7875:7901:7903:7974:9010:10004:10400:10450:10455:10848:11658:11914:12297:12663:13071:13161:13200:13229:14180:14721:14877:19904:19999:21060:21063:21080:21324:21325:21433:21627:21740:21790:21881:21972:21987:30041:30054:30062:30070:30090:30091, 0, RBL:none, CacheIP:none, Bayesian:0.5, 0.5, 0.5, Netcheck:none, DomainCache:0, MSF:not bulk, SPF:, MSBL:0, DNSBL:none, Custom_rules:0:0:0, LFtime:1, LUA_SUMMARY:none
X-HE-Tag: nose29_2b98d074c3210
X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 6578
Received: from [192.168.0.103] (ip68-9-182-8.ri.ri.cox.net [68.9.182.8]) (Authenticated sender: avri@doria.org) by omf05.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:24:59 +0000 (UTC)
To: hrpc@irtf.org
From: avri@doria.org
Autocrypt: addr=avri@doria.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFJXhnsBCADCE9YSMulYfOUptnfTF1uwP2BRzUq87CAUacN6N5H5k8lNffqEXmgI+QWC njF7OwJ71rQLVYV3sIlpCQU9UyQfLHZDZoqV1d+aAJhgmmG6XtSReUi4jgAvsLzj+HkJSSqU 4voepwXs5k2DgRONAXojxvV5rFExDNqz4fn1zj2jf0SMTbCBkhHw1HQ6WXqW5T73LNbEUVys yEJBb+3+ITCVPTeVm7P/dXIEnsIsRVW8yeYoo1+E+jbPJ0OqHXtrWTdqqlU1CUHBgGWEFIIM qT//XVO0Kck8qyir7wqXb37fhSAkw32ZAKrd2NFrq71qk9Yj+SLtgxxqjGVLcbh3WVfRABEB AAG0G2F2cmkgZG9yaWEgPGF2cmlAZG9yaWEub3JnPokBPAQTAQgAJgIbLwcLCQgHAwIBBhUI AgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAhkBBQJZvm+gAAoJENWp6aLJ/w+n0uQIAKc9Cb5C7NLtjvu2JvcQ Y8QLiubHVvYHAcTsP2J/JRviFIGeZY7uShuhf6VDI8wYXqAjhLfPGv6KvudwOs1dZ4VvzmUt 4yLWPGMEz7T7cQItc/jcYxJYdtI9g0OfYXQMV4TIIQB2KC40bnLjkd3d5EF+2cQIpivE3RED xQ5DZcsbi5q4E4t0z4Zzg5iskwR58cNnlvbVr+5qlVu1KiDYAMCR+ij4AJtzwpRTkH1l6hrv zOmgsdqqPIzSHWdcZPxWsSOm53sFDE54qABhL6+4fbPzRDZnvObnTP6bukPzX5vzYFGXIcQw RqgGOHi83Wf6dPum6K9YmCzxbdgwRsQGEda5AQ0EUleGewEIAL2hntjt90xA4j9yeFvFMAmE qG/rIj0w3XfV3bQsDBUUdH4rVl3SSPp7rBNhe7drGN+SgQP2lJ6hcikRxfZEj9DnT0/9ERrM MqO7SYUTB6Tx8vIoqmy/T4nqHpVlnCTyixxJDaohUHtTkN3BEie//PlMnIC2tXt9JRMXSTAq 3lrUp2mRzDXBWZLhPVUqx6Uo3MMH1magq888piNJAQdf/P+vSuayjVwPyuG6HEEdG+5Q006Q eZQKfAZinaq3ICEyimWZbLWZRC5bw26PZOKxICUKNA1hAaIhw4OKrGsKRCTOj4cN5T6rr/wj zrwwsxypxUiEac/7bVwgEv5O/+TipAkAEQEAAYkCPgQYAQIACQIbLgUCWb5voAEpwF0gBBkB AgAGBQJSV4Z7AAoJEOo+L8tCe36HTvYH/RXrGi8imCvHou7US+pua51wTQrWghz6nEaavtFR +k5wHrf7WdjxEdDaJnb0YZki5IiEyqhHEq9Tb0JMCye4rzgWpvd1Z8JJ2FXmY8EjuRZg1sP3 3bvxm1hM7qsPCTWXzn1eHY3i5zAdtEEk0h+isLmEuuFWhGNwzyb0BC/h84YHylqv7/bMrHUz CtkUKdO2Vx0W8e/EWUDfLJnHtvTFTT1E/koOnWErJfmKhq2G6rMv13XsU7vr9AWZ6vDA3z2o sCHWkA2gkhU7TwHqPkY9HPoekUXlR/n11jBS9Jwx4Dnsyd7pqaRHxoyRqfEWTi8JF+N+XzC3 buf3G3buW3BDmNcJENWp6aLJ/w+n+8wH/0dSUDcbks95ftWatIWFXdtofOTexLvj13dH9BWa Sy7OQDKa1N838tTsRVLOMpF3AmbkqNWDqdF37HcWST9aO/Pi8vSFGtIbVHD74aFUG3PlNOBs lZea+G2UUV2WSXZPiTci8IL2mF8hrt92LcE/4AaaXh35d8ngpjx3CqIkFoMUHVEA1iye5YL+ GjqFR3R2AMLhwK/Nu9uw+cSJQqeZpzkGulPd4Gccxj8YMLQIiZwMTPIReWgSETohRmzyS04Z 6yQ42xcvoUbQ6lLXW0fjNNTBcD93hnlOk1xf+d9tx3fvigMrkxbVGNx/Ob92oRGwz63nnnPg DoZoktZXmyHIh2E=
Message-ID: <de0ba70d-f2e8-93cb-d2a9-ee6b73b67f18@doria.org>
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 23:24:58 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en-US
X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 200407-0, 04/07/2020), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hrpc/fFOpoecvQ3BoPampK_HjpE8L78A>
Subject: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research publication
X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: hrpc discussion list <hrpc.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hrpc/>
List-Post: <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 03:25:03 -0000
Hi, ** *Recently it has felt to me as though the HRPC RG was spinning its wheels. Our documents aren't moving along the path to RFC very easily and except for interesting presentations at meetings, well worth while in themselves, we have not been making great progress with our research.* * Part of this comes from a disagreement about the use of RFC publishing. While I know it is not a requirement for the IRTF, I strongly believe that research published as a RG RFC should have RG agreement for publication. This does not mean that there must be agreement on all the ideas and statements in the doc, but on the finished product. This was the process we followed with RFC 8280 and I believe it works. A bit cumbersome and slow at times, but it led to what I believe was a better document. Not everyone, including my co-chair, agrees with this approach. To many, the RFC series is the publication method used by the IRTF and not everything needs to be a rough consensus document. In addition to individual submissions, IRTF submissions are not bound by IETF rules. They rightly ask why HRPC should be so strict when there is no requirement to be. This question in one way or another has been asked by several people in the RG over the last few years. The recent difficulty has also been named as a reason for why researchers have seemed a bit less willing to work on documents lately; what is the point if they won't get published. I can see this point of view, and yet, I still find myself unable to support sending a RG document to the IRSG that the RG does not think is ready for publication. Of course individual submissions would be a different matter as those do not need to be shepherded by the RG chair in the same way. Mallory and I have been discussing this impasse on and off for the last two years. The last time we talked we both felt, I believe, that it was time to try something different to break the impasse. I made a suggestion for working with two tracks, one the RFC track where RG internet drafts need RG support for publication as RFCs, and the other, the production of a yearly publication that is an edited volume that does not require RG approval. Mallory suggested that I bring this to the RG for discussion. What I am suggesting for the non RFC track is that we pick a topic per year and publish a collection of research, essays, and commentary on that topic. How we would publish this remains to be discovered; could be anything from a wiki site to an ebook or even finding a journal to do a special release, if such a thing is possible. Mallory and I would act as lead editors, but we would need to enlist help from members of the RG in terms of putting such an effort together, as it does take work and contributions. In terms of topics for a first year, I have thought of two, but am not wed to either of them at all. We would need to find a subject that members of the RG, and hopefully others, would be willing to contribute their writing to. 1 - Take the draft-politics as the seed and build the edition around the various aspects of that discussion and the issues it raises. 2 - Take the HRPC core question on “whether standards and protocols can enable, strengthen or threaten human rights” and explore the various viewpoints on that question, including the pros, the cons and anything in between. This topic is on our upcoming meeting agenda, and I hope to gather some viewpoints that will guide how we can move forward, or not as the case may be, with the idea. Also interested in opinions on the list. Thanks avri *
- [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research publi… avri
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Mark Perkins
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Colin Perkins
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Paul Wouters
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… avri
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… avri
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… avri
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Stéphane Couture
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [hrpc] Possible options for a HRPC research p… Colin Perkins
- [hrpc] The relevance of RFCs // was: Possible opt… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] The relevance of RFCs // was: Possible… Paul Wouters