[hrpc] Interim meeting - 25 Feb 16 UTC

[avri doria <[e-mail]>]

Hi,

Thanks Stéphane for the report.

This interim has been registered with the secretariat and been announced
on list and elsewhere.

Hope people saw the announcement.

It is scheduled for: 25 Feb 1600 - 1800 UTC

Stéphane is providing the zoom room for the meeting:

1. Zoom :

https://yorku.zoom.us/j/234314123
Meeting ID: 234 314 123
Find your local number: https://yorku.zoom.us/u/avFFYbR4w

Draft Agenda -

Single issue: draft-association

- Welcome & Agenda review

- Summary of discussion/work since last HRPC mtg

- Discussion on next steps for draft

- Discussion of cases to be included in draft

- Recruit someone, or more, to work with Stéphane on completing the draft

- AOB

Thanks

avri


On 14-Feb-20 16:53, Stéphane Couture wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Sorry for the delays, but here is a report I made from our last Zoom
> meeting about draft-association, that we held two weeks ago. Sorry
> also for the typos.
>
> As stated in this report and announced previously, the next meeting
> will be on February 25th  from 16:00 to 18:00 GMT, and will be an
> interim meeting (Avri or Mallory could say more on this). 
>
> 0. Participants
> ===========
>
> Stéphane, Niels, Avri, Mallory (for the first part), Juliana
>
> 1. Editorial team
> =============
>
> Since Joe doesn’t have much time, Niels is still participating and
> Juliana wants to participate more, but doesn’t know to what extent. We
> have decided to make an « open » editorial committee for now, and we
> will decide later on the order of authors, based on who has
> contributed the more (overall, not just in terms of commits on the git
> hub). Stéphane is ok to follow up on coordination until the next IETF
> but we will need a co-editor after.
>
> 2. Report from first seminar 
> =====================
>
> Stéphane presented some of the stuff we discussed in the first
> seminar. See the slides :
> https://framadrop.org/r/jgvRpOZUq6#VZ8mgyiCF/fDgIeYUFfhS+JkaJra01Vr98VFv0jKAmU=
>
> For the goals, it was suggested that we reframe the goal to “explore
> and map the relationships.”
>
> As for the goals: Niels mentioned that the goal is to explore the
> relationships, before making some recommendations. For instance, you
> have to study – and establish – the relationships between drinking and
> driving, before making decision related to this. This might raise
> (again) the point of the theoretical framework we use to “explore”
> these relationships. If our aim is to establish some kind of causality
> – as we would do for drinking and driving – an interpretative
> framework might not be the best for this.
>
> 3. Work since the last seminar: literature review
> ====================================
>
> Stéphane presented his work on enhancing literature review. A few more
> documents addressing explicitly the relations between “freedom of
> association and assembly” and “the digital” were found. In particular,
> a draft document from the European Council that was not known to us,
> presented some social cases (slide 12), that could be re-used in the
> research. We still had debates about the relevance of starting with
> social cases rather than technological cases (as it is right now in
> draft-association).
>
> It was agreed that these references should be briefly added to the
> draft-association. Niels mentioned that all the cases identified in
> this document have already been discussed on the list and that it
> would be important to look at how it plays out in “architectural”
> layers relevant to IETF. For instance, the design of encryption is an
> inherent part of protocols, or using source routing. If we can show
> that these choices can make association or joining easier or more
> difficult, it would be good.
>
> Note about the notion of “infrastructural”: We use here
> “infrastructure” in a general sense to refer to the “behind the
> scenes” of normal internet usages, especially protocols.
> Infrastructural is thus opposed here to “policy” or “economic”
> dimensions. What we are interested in here is the broad scope of IETF
> work, not the specific realm of how “infrastructure” is used within
> IETF. To avoid confusion, it was proposed that we talk about the
> “architecture of the Internet”, instead of the “infrastructure of the
> Internet.”
>
> We also presented a summary of an encyclopedia article about “freedom
> of association”, where they present a nuanced version of freedom of
> association. It was mentioned that in an earlier version, Gisela made
> a similar work, but it was considered too “legal”. We might want to
> look at this previous version of the draft
>
> 4. The cases
> ===========
>
> We still had some discussions about the current cases, and especially
> the way in which they inhibit association. We went through the
> difference case studies, and discussing their enabling or disabling
> capacity. This part of the discussion was fully transcribed.  It is
> proposed that we create a table to address each of these cases, which
> will help in turn clarifying the argument. See the table here :
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r88InF_YejQHmcmHIgtVY1gEXPa1dDT2TAWpuUdMu80/edit?usp=sharing
>
> 4. What’s next
> ===========
>
> The next meeting will be an ‘interim meeting”, so we will be able to
> have formal decisions.
>
> 1. By the next meeting, we should have a table that analyzes the way
> in which protocols mentioned in the paper inhibit or enable
> association. This table should be done collaboratively.:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r88InF_YejQHmcmHIgtVY1gEXPa1dDT2TAWpuUdMu80/edit?usp=sharing
>
> 2. In the next meeting we should decide if we analyze more thoroughly
> social cases, or we stick to the cases currently in the paper. If we
> go and analyze social cases, it might make the paper stronger, but it
> would probably take much more time.
>
> 3. A “diff” should be presented in the next meeting, so it is approved.
>
> 4. Make sure we resubmit the draft (by March 8^th , 2020).
>
>
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