Re: [hrpc] I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-political-03.txt

Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> Fri, 12 July 2019 17:29 UTC

Return-Path: <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5EE1203C2 for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 10:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.299
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nCBVFDFzxEqq for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 10:29:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx4.open-xchange.com (alcatraz.open-xchange.com [87.191.39.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51C2F1203AF for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 10:29:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.30.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx4.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BDBA6A34A; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:29:02 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1562952542; bh=16TPbjrZBc5JcfTit+g1F6n9L415OD+nyFMIWo+OleQ=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=S9NNzWabLQhd1FQNuW4U1n1/+O/koRi36teoLaAnr+6+N0A1sMiUoS+hij2nRCcn3 x2Wy2TNo73iXM113mwfjfB8jXnTJE8EuzvYdvn5OzGeUEsZUfIRo8KOihsHCUIH2yO IEgJUZjK4VqbpeH0XxJNQBs+jnmrTaYJU0Ie2j8yNpNUJ+dwaFrLl1aaNm0yiRqwJa xmlVDx++LkiAkEfIAwgk+ttWzSJuuC7fga9f4GF27k5L6m1cAY1dZuXLHX4bAuUNcR cH4oT5/2Wgg4BJGJ7/q/gsaO/ujnzX2kPJd8NL/Qj2m0rFtDS2iIxdB6QTaYA6Gf4p UOu/zKt7MxA9w==
Received: from appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com (appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com [10.20.28.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2F1853C035A; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:29:02 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:29:02 +0200
From: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
Reply-To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Cc: hrpc@irtf.org
Message-ID: <287405995.3024.1562952542137@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <5a67c26b-21d1-3271-a89c-418b29486e17@cs.tcd.ie>
References: <155810770809.26266.7969582032908863356@ietfa.amsl.com> <405bd4ae-1735-2ddb-d4af-a6314833537a@derechosdigitales.org> <98cc85cf-5c03-1e91-7fe0-746e1ad502e6@nielstenoever.net> <7B65EBFA-4EAA-4010-9D3F-9CC8805AF7D2@cisco.com> <adcd74fc-f536-d861-eb6f-fb0b7acd24ba@nielstenoever.net> <d89f14d5-a421-713e-b3f5-1fe475573fff@cs.tcd.ie> <964A7862-3550-43A5-A856-ABF831D2E5BA@cisco.com> <5a67c26b-21d1-3271-a89c-418b29486e17@cs.tcd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Medium
X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.2-Rev8
X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite
Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hrpc/vwiMB0psbWFYUJ_og4hc_wUUYjg>
Subject: Re: [hrpc] I-D Action: draft-irtf-hrpc-political-03.txt
X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" <hrpc.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hrpc/>
List-Post: <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 17:29:07 -0000

On 12/07/2019 17:46, Stephen Farrell wrote:

> On 12/07/2019 16:41, Eliot Lear wrote:
> > I think you need to support this statement based on my previous
> > message.  That is- if one has an inability to effectively participate
> > in the setting of defacto standards that impact one’s own society,
> > isn’t one disenfranchised from protecting against whatever human
> > rights impacts our work has?  Or is that in itself not a human right,
> > and merely some form of privilege?
> 
> I do not consider participation in the IETF, not attendance
> at IETF meetings, a human right, no.

This is the second point I made in my earlier message, but I think that the key one is the first, which is slightly different: if having an Internet (and the society/economy that it promotes) that respects everyone's human rights is necessary for those human rights to be fulfilled, and if the technical decisions made at the IETF (i.e. protocol specs) influence the socioeconomic direction of the Internet, and if the internal diversity of participants influences the technical decisions made at the IETF, then ensuring appropriate diversity among IETF participants (and thus, appropriate participation opportunities) is necessary to ensure that the Internet generates a society in which human rights are respected. It is a long chain of ifs, but I find it reasonable at least as a research item to explore.

-- 
 
Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange
vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com 
Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy