Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf-hrpc-guidelines
Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch> Thu, 20 May 2021 12:08 UTC
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To: Mallory Knodel <mallory@cdt.org>
Cc: "hrpc@irtf.org" <hrpc@irtf.org>
From: Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>
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Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 14:08:41 +0200
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Subject: Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf-hrpc-guidelines
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Hi Mallory, I'm conducting another last call review of this document. This may be one of several mails. *Major issue:* For "Impacts"- These impacts are claimed, both here and in 8280, but the linkage isn't explicitly made in each case. Are these linkages made clear somewhere else? I may have entirely missed it, in which case this issue isn't an issue at all. Otherwise, one wonders if we are putting the cart before the horse. *Somewhere between Minor and Major* Section 2 & 2.2 I think there is a slight organizational issue, from a readability perspective. It feels to me like 2.1 is really still introductory, and then 2.2 gets into what to do, starting with interviews. It may make sense to move 2.1 up into Section 1, and then create a new chapeau in Section 2 that shows your preferred work flow. For example: [concept formation] -> [WG discussion] -> [HR expert consultation] -> [impacted community consultation] -> [modifications] -> ... -> [implementations] -> [tracing impacts] -> [revisions] And there can be while/if loops etc. A little UML might go a long way here. Section 2.3 should be consulted throughout, under such a model. You could even move that into a new H1 section 3. A few of the examples seem to me a bit disjoint from the IETF. I think we talked about Accessibility at some point, but an example more relevant to the IETF might help people grasp the more direct relevance to the organization. I don't have a particularly good example of this, but there should at least be an existence proof of the relevance to us... unless... ... you want the guidance to be broader than just the IETF. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you should scrub the doc then to make sure that IETF-specific stuff is generalized. An example might be to replace "protocol" with "specification". Along these lines, I am still ruminating over Section 2.3.10, which may need a separate email. It's clear that there are things that can be done at the IETF, and things that can be done elsewhere. Section 2.3.13 I don't know that we have *any* real success stories for decentralization. HTTP certainly isn't one. Certainly designing *toward* centralization might be best, but I don't think we have very many examples of that *either.* Moreover, I have argued, and continue to argue, that some centralization may *facilitate* human rights. If you take into account the combination of DOH + cloud, an observer must go to far greater lengths to discern even so much as the nature of the traffic, much less content and actual endpoint. And this raises another issue: the point of much of cloud services is to improve individual service reliability. And yet those same cloud services are a form of centralization. If you consider that perhaps a handful of players might force DNS traffic to a limited number of resolver services, we might also say that DoH itself presents centralization risks. These sorts of conflicts are of course to be expected. The question is whether it is worth providing guidance relating to centralization. I will claim that nobody yet has a real handle in this area, and so better to say nothing in the form of guidance. Instead, it seems to me to be good fodder for future work. 2.3.17 Authenticity The authors write: > At the same time, authentication should not be used as a way to > prevent heterogeneity support, as is often done for vendor lock-in or > digital rights management. As if that should be the #1 concern. Perhaps a bigger concern is that authenticity directly conflicts with anonymity or pseudo-anonymity. If someone is forcing you to authenticate, the authentication identity can and will be associated with whatever access takes place, and that information can be demanded. Furthermore, I'm not at all sure that the example holds up, and it should be at least supported by a current reference. Finally, there are conflicts here as well: the technology that one might use for vendor lock-in is the same as that used to validate the authenticity of software, for purposes of preventing malware spread. Also, the question itself is a bit shallow. Authenticity of what? If we are talking about the underlying data, a mere transport connection may not in and of itself provide sufficient protection. We have plenty of mail traversing encrypted tunnels and lots of spam to go with. *Minor issues:* Beginning with Section 1: > This is by no means an attempt to exclude specific rights or > prioritize some rights over others. If other rights seem relevant, > please contact the authors. Are we are sufficiently taking into account how linkages to other rights might prevail? Let me give an example: If we are talking about a new version of "whois" that retrieves information necessary for law enforcement, the whole point of the protocol is to expose information that some would say is private. And so the question revolves around whether appropriate protections are in place to limit access to that information to authorized parties. However, even doing that may not be enough, if "authorized parties" are the source of abuse. I don't know if such an example is an outlier, but there it is. Nit: the 2nd sentence will need to be changed or removed. 2.3.12 "Localization" Be advised that this term has distinctly different meanings. In trade parlance it is a barrier to trade through local requirements.[1] A TBT can also be viewed as a means to restrict content that isn't translated (ie, stuff that censors can read). I think this might be worth a mention, just because they're related and yet potentially conflicting. Ok, I'll stop there for now. Eliot [1] https://ustr.gov/trade-topics/localization-barriers
- [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf-hrp… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Gurshabad Grover
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Eliot Lear
- [hrpc] "DNS Privacy Vs" Re: Working group last ca… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Eliot Lear
- [hrpc] DNS Privacy Vs. Re: Working group last cal… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Working group last call for draft-irtf… Mallory Knodel