Re: [Http-srv] Alternative to SRV?

Ray Bellis <ray@bellis.me.uk> Fri, 24 August 2018 10:36 UTC

Return-Path: <ray@bellis.me.uk>
X-Original-To: http-srv@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: http-srv@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF96130E63 for <http-srv@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 03:36:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZRIYoGTG69bm for <http-srv@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 03:36:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from hydrogen.portfast.net (hydrogen.portfast.net [188.246.200.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FBD0130E4C for <http-srv@ietf.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2018 03:36:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 82-69-21-132.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk ([82.69.21.132]:55845 helo=Barbaras-MacBook-Pro.local) by hydrogen.portfast.net ([188.246.200.2]:465) with esmtpsa (fixed_plain:ray@bellis.me.uk) (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) id 1ft9Rt-0005EW-LW (Exim 4.72) for http-srv@ietf.org (return-path <ray@bellis.me.uk>); Fri, 24 Aug 2018 11:36:13 +0100
To: http-srv@ietf.org
References: <6aceab29-cf81-8644-20cd-e02281e6394c@bellis.me.uk> <DDFF92A9-9F1D-4883-AF5C-1372EBDAB156@isc.org> <CAKC-DJj3uGYwgd5v+VUEWCDS08NMcFne+1iZ2EC3FVr2qKmcwg@mail.gmail.com> <CAHPuVdWFbB_u7ppkGsF6A-8qXDqdmAyP0v5E_OAO2vzUsD9Ayg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ray Bellis <ray@bellis.me.uk>
Message-ID: <9093d0e6-3546-c742-91a1-2cac4e26984e@bellis.me.uk>
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 11:36:14 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAHPuVdWFbB_u7ppkGsF6A-8qXDqdmAyP0v5E_OAO2vzUsD9Ayg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/http-srv/_COK0vwych5gOQ54_e27u9GxyP8>
Subject: Re: [Http-srv] Alternative to SRV?
X-BeenThere: http-srv@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: Using DNS SRV Records with HTTP <http-srv.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/http-srv>, <mailto:http-srv-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/http-srv/>
List-Post: <mailto:http-srv@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:http-srv-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-srv>, <mailto:http-srv-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 10:36:22 -0000


On 24/08/2018 05:06, Shumon Huque wrote:

> Before designing yet another record to solve this problem, I think we 
> need to first determine if that path would have support from HTTP folks. 
> Or, if there is already momentum behind the dns-alt-svc draft, and if it 
> is more likely to gain traction, then perhaps working on refining it is 
> the best option. Otherwise we risk defining an SRV version 2 record 
> which will again be ignored.

It's completely unclear to me whether ALTSVC would be deployable as the 
primary means of directing web clients to the primary target for the 
initial HTTP connections.

It is, after all, a DNS encoding of the HTTP *Alternate* Service feature.

> [deleted]
> 
> I've also proposed that client behavior when processing ALTSVC responses 
> should be to shuffle or randomize the ALTSVC RRs (of equal priority), 
> and also shuffle address records for each server if there are multiple 
> of them (if they are returned by the server in additional data). This 
> would ensure better load balancing behavior regardless of whether the 
> DNS server shuffles or randomizes the records.

We specifically heard at the side meeting that the browser folks don't 
want load balancing information stored in the DNS.  What we haven't 
heard (that I know of) is what the web *content* folks think of that.

I do know that some of the hardware GLB appliances that use DNS tricks 
to implement load-balancing do a pitifully poor job of DNS compliance.

FWIW, I'd also like to do away with underscore labels for these records, 
since (again from the web / DNS hosting point of view) they interact 
badly with DNS wildcard records.

Ray