Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP
Loïc Hoguin <essen@ninenines.eu> Fri, 23 December 2016 15:32 UTC
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To: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, Wenbo Zhu <wenboz@google.com>
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Cc: Patrick McManus <mcmanus@ducksong.com>, Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com>, "Martin J. Dürst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, Andy Green <andy@warmcat.com>, Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
From: Loïc Hoguin <essen@ninenines.eu>
Organization: Nine Nines
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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2016 16:28:24 +0100
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Subject: Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP
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On 12/23/2016 03:40 PM, Mark Nottingham wrote: > Sorry to perpetuate this thread, but... > > On 15 Dec. 2016, at 11:39 am, Wenbo Zhu <wenboz@google.com> wrote: >> >> On non-browsers, > > *confused* > > AIUI the *only* reasonable use case for WebSockets is browsers; who is using it without a browser? > > (keeping in mind that WS is effectively TCP constrained by the Web security / same-origin model) The three bigger Websocket users I have seen are: * browsers; * phone applications; * servers Excluding Websocket sub protocols, generally the pattern is the same: a server has an HTTP API and some of that API is implemented using Websocket to allow the server to push data to the client. This usage can arguably be replaced by HTTP/2 with push. It is closer in spirit to text/event-stream, while also allowing binary data without using base64 on that data beforehand. It's not TCP but rather a more generalized event push mechanism than text/event-stream provides. Most of the cases I have seen the usage is much lighter than HTTP/2 push provides; there's no cache involved, and the intent is to send the event to the client as soon as possible (ie without having to go through the push promise and response headers first). A Websocket over HTTP/2 would allow those users to use the HTTP and Websocket API over a single connection. Servers that use Websocket to speak to each other simply use the same interface other clients do. For servers it's more about code reuse than any other considerations. Developer implements HTTP/Websocket server for phone apps; writes a client module for testing this server; uses the client module to speak to other servers. The same-origin only seems useful for browsers in practice, I have not seen it applied elsewhere. -- Loïc Hoguin https://ninenines.eu
- 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Mark Nottingham
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Martin Thomson
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Kazuho Oku
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Kazuho Oku
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Mark Nottingham
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Kazuho Oku
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Amos Jeffries
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Willy Tarreau
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Loïc Hoguin
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Cory Benfield
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Van Catha
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Van Catha
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Van Catha
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Van Catha
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Martin J. Dürst
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Wenbo Zhu
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Mark Nottingham
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Loïc Hoguin
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion