IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Push and Caching

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Mon, 25 August 2014 00:05 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DE1B1A88BF for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 17:05:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.57
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YDdE__GIGjHd for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 17:05:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60B901A88BD for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 17:05:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1XLhjW-00017n-09 for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 00:02:02 +0000
Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 00:02:02 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1XLhjW-00017n-09@frink.w3.org>
Received: from maggie.w3.org ([128.30.52.39]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1XLhj2-00016A-H7 for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 00:01:32 +0000
Received: from mxout-07.mxes.net ([216.86.168.182]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1XLhj1-0002IN-LQ for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 00:01:32 +0000
Received: from [192.168.1.55] (unknown [118.209.123.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 082C522E1F4; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 20:01:05 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\))
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
In-Reply-To: <45e313be48fe4de6ab7e9ad5240141ba@BL2PR03MB132.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:01:01 +1000
Cc: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>, Patrick McManus <mcmanus@ducksong.com>, William Chow <wchow@mobolize.com>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <E85892BD-F29D-4007-B5B1-5A20457B35CA@mnot.net>
References: <dc3d860ecb4b4d408a5ed0519a036e61@BL2PR03MB132.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CABkgnnWvKgyDcm-1jEKZUA2Qza9M46X+X_QybwuqRwvSUrTjNw@mail.gmail.com> <B6B89855-237F-44DA-B29C-2A3BB5CE0EED@mnot.net> <920b92b90a3c47ef8d450c903b83af40@DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <d94a3acceb954583a61b0118381df417@BL2PR03MB132.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CAOdDvNpa5WR4LJbsgQaBE3bTSAc+gXfYqCmV+zmUzE5b7+1a9A@mail.gmail.com> <CECA0C1A-E64C-443A-87AF-22BC66286F72@mnot.net> <CABkgnnXVJA3R4qhc__k4j+_LzeS7B24VxfCZwBSfywepEx=tKA@mail.gmail.com> <40d03e3bb1df480e808e64fa29048880@BL2PR03MB132.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CABkgnnW5NMo8ZuxzHVb+z=9z6NXDZf40iQY75qDcBNfzOWAdeQ@mail.gmail.com> <45e313be48fe4de6ab7e9ad5240141ba@BL2PR03MB132.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
To: Mike Bishop <Michael.Bishop@microsoft.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6)
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=216.86.168.182; envelope-from=mnot@mnot.net; helo=mxout-07.mxes.net
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-2.120, BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1XLhj1-0002IN-LQ e01112a9c17e331d246ae0b3b09db8e9
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Push and Caching
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/E85892BD-F29D-4007-B5B1-5A20457B35CA@mnot.net>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/26725
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

I made those requirements because we're really stepping outside the bounds of the traditional HTTP caching model here, although I do see Gabriel's point. I'm happy if the editor wants to adjust.

Cheers,


On 23 Aug 2014, at 4:56 am, Mike Bishop <Michael.Bishop@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Actually, Gabriel pointed out that since you can't validate the MAY from external observation, it should be non-normative, and the MUST NOT (presumably) duplicates an existing requirement that uncacheable things not be cached.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Thomson [mailto:martin.thomson@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 10:58 AM
> To: Mike Bishop
> Cc: Mark Nottingham; Patrick McManus; William Chow; HTTP Working Group
> Subject: Re: Push and Caching
> 
> On 22 August 2014 10:30, Mike Bishop <Michael.Bishop@microsoft.com> wrote:
>> "While the stream identified by the promised stream ID is still open" - meaning that as long as the client has asked for it before the server has finished sending it?  That's a fairly small amount of time, particularly if the resource is very small, but sounds like a good starting point.
> 
> I'm sure that clients can fail to notice the END_STREAM flag for as long as they need to in order to ensure that the various races resolve in the right way...
> 
> Trying to determine how long the window is after END_STREAM arrives in which clients can consider the response validated is nasty.  I don't know how to finesse this other than turning a blind eye to small violations, the likes of which you (and Firefox too) are committing in this regard.

--
Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/

v2.26.15 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status