Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure-18

Ian Clelland <iclelland@google.com> Mon, 11 May 2020 14:05 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513603A0B18 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 11 May 2020 07:05:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.251
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZBAs0K9oLL_L for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 11 May 2020 07:05:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lyra.w3.org (lyra.w3.org [128.30.52.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8CAB3A0B05 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 11 May 2020 07:04:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by lyra.w3.org with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1jY8zF-00049w-0A for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 14:00:53 +0000
Resent-Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 14:00:53 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1jY8zF-00049w-0A@lyra.w3.org>
Received: from titan.w3.org ([128.30.52.76]) by lyra.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <iclelland@google.com>) id 1jY8zD-00047r-6q for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 14:00:51 +0000
Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) by titan.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <iclelland@google.com>) id 1jY8z9-0003Ng-1S for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 14:00:51 +0000
Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id l3so8020813edq.13 for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>; Mon, 11 May 2020 07:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qrdimZPbUV39yCJKt69syc0xNELEM/UcHgC48yUAlBc=; b=jvq5m3JC261qBoBl/Ow3Nd8dmtM+suxoZHy+A7SURVPb8VbB4dFEky2Kp73Us/j2RS ONYEDZ1pC0LTMta9gFWZjY4B3Z+aKg0yxMH00Om5ICRWIp2rdOQ1bCJ4lEH2cOlX1UOI YrA1S5PwEyw8gkjFRvhANcOHqCIMa9fppQgAEieW+siZZoK5xEVgJPZeOrypbCvctg15 ouHNfjIoioYNwtRVUcm68MB7NfNJ0MShJiL8/IXQeBaa/RZMEfAP7L92iRWf8Wl1uuRd Vpd9Ro2YfuA3jKOn6IJLl/GPLuKrKNEQJaxIWRXRrmwC1I9BX2g2VQ0mxyo3YF65h3eA +6iA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qrdimZPbUV39yCJKt69syc0xNELEM/UcHgC48yUAlBc=; b=JsZlU+Rmr52tVRYEF4n2+yQ1rVUq5tt8uhpbxlETQbMN1vDdY81kmXCL9A7hvBT8v5 1sF+p9WdWXXeEjXmiQDBVGHsXYIUnWDd0WuHBumOGajESaNuDPBceElU5aTGgbDW2teO CmLcuq75K2SuFFOY0dLwMkXS0sRRTSSJT6dHw8zB0B5UlH/67Uf8zMcvUE2wfNoyMEVJ auunZibYM9GqTRnow6FplU0ak5EACfiwvDEC3Rv54yByLM64XIBaEWI13kKvcC0w9vkn vvJ5drk+7yowDOqqtw7fbzkkfN5+sbOkym46iG9dSJzsQ2AjKInJgFcZzyYYnISVRi1m +TqQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuagX2CTGPGXonNmEPcBZL6JLHQv9CN/hQorzi8YiANwylD5Qm4M hb6AtFmFk2Jek+i+UzblAQCkVmufjjGt1kFYE11q2mPl
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJgMcwsm+VGVZvUAX7XcylD6NqdqDVOhBQIpJFA+SbTjEinliVVE4UFH+C7QbXzRGsWxmiZ/HLdEqZrNAu/TIQ=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:507:: with SMTP id m7mr13945372edv.7.1589205635337; Mon, 11 May 2020 07:00:35 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <158864148815.25056.4870473086918483854@ietfa.amsl.com> <2E578812-9E59-426E-85A9-B3A5AEA12853@mnot.net> <CAPDSy+4y9ZZ-f=MyV1b_-t5OygyYgdr3W4V4soiLVGOgzXKdMg@mail.gmail.com> <11202.1588710553@critter.freebsd.dk> <78C9039F-F687-41A1-A85D-CC8B3B82211B@mnot.net> <13256.1588748433@critter.freebsd.dk> <977F061C-A4BB-413B-B26C-51C7A694FA74@mnot.net> <17086.1588834035@critter.freebsd.dk> <20200507072820.GA32244@1wt.eu>
In-Reply-To: <20200507072820.GA32244@1wt.eu>
From: Ian Clelland <iclelland@google.com>
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 10:00:23 -0400
Message-ID: <CAK_TSXK-J=4STodPtDeCHFXyeuM+6ixMBxSsmmMkZ1gMP5P9nQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, gen-art <gen-art@ietf.org>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, last-call@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005f065a05a55fc5bf"
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52d; envelope-from=iclelland@google.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52d.google.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.6
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_DB=-1, W3C_IRA=-1, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: titan.w3.org 1jY8z9-0003Ng-1S daf7bfe34c08d2259bee2301390135b9
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure-18
Archived-At: <https://www.w3.org/mid/CAK_TSXK-J=4STodPtDeCHFXyeuM+6ixMBxSsmmMkZ1gMP5P9nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/37593
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <https://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 3:32 AM Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> wrote:

> On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 06:47:15AM +0000, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> > --------
> > In message <977F061C-A4BB-413B-B26C-51C7A694FA74@mnot.net>et>, Mark
> Nottingham writes:
> >
> > >Perhaps in full context:
> > >
> > >~~~
> > >For example:
> > >
> > >  Example-ScaledInt: 4503; suffix=3DM
> > >
> > >Could be used to indicate a scaled value; in this case, 4,503,000,000, =
> > >if the `M` suffix parameter is specified to denote multiplying the =
> > >integer by 1,000,000.
> > >~~~
> > >
> > >Thoughts?
> >
> > Would people connect that to the 15 digit limitation ?
>
> I really don't see what we're trying to save above. I mean, it
> requires more code to encode the numbers, more bytes on the wire
> in every single case, and more code on the decoding side, plus
> all the absurd or difficult error cases that have to be carefully
> dealt with.
>
> Sending "4503000000 <(450)%20300-0000>" is enough to always represent the
> same thing
> and being trivial to check in length and to parse.
>
> Amusingly the proposed representation with this "suffix=3DM" could
> even possibly trigger some artefacts becoming "suffix=M" when
> accidentely fed through a MIME-aware decoder seeing "=3D" and turning
> it to "=", but that's just a side detail which still indicates that
> making things difficult to decode can only result in more mistakes.
>

I think that's exactly what happened here, in reverse -- mnot's original
suggestion was just a parameter "suffix=M", and in phk's reply, I see the
corrupted "suffix=3DM", so likely somebody's MUA got confused along the way.

I don't think that's an argument for abandoning "=" as the param/value
separator, though :)

Ian