Re: #428 Accept-Language ordering for identical qvalues

Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> Fri, 18 January 2013 09:08 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2862B21F8918 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:08:59 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.047
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.552, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i5TYvFObe3mV for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:08:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8691921F8931 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 01:08:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1Tw7va-0001G5-Fa for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:07:58 +0000
Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:07:58 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1Tw7va-0001G5-Fa@frink.w3.org>
Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <julian.reschke@gmx.de>) id 1Tw7vX-0001Cy-I6 for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:07:55 +0000
Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <julian.reschke@gmx.de>) id 1Tw7vW-0007Ok-Pl for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:07:55 +0000
Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.17]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lpzc9-1TK20l01pv-00flZe for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:07:28 +0100
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 18 Jan 2013 09:07:27 -0000
Received: from mail.greenbytes.de (EHLO [192.168.1.102]) [217.91.35.233] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 18 Jan 2013 10:07:27 +0100
X-Authenticated: #1915285
X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+IeFxEOg6IhPmgl8cvWV0qXTojOHkWKguZmtZ2PC uZk35UShNUnsdI
Message-ID: <50F910C8.5010200@gmx.de>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:07:20 +0100
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz>
CC: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
References: <50F6CD98.8080802@gmx.de> <2BF19800-66E0-42DC-B0B5-0F8CA6AE6379@gbiv.com> <50F7C0DC.90906@gmx.de> <838B1C13-3170-4BA1-8F1F-E171137E0BC8@gbiv.com> <50F86739.40302@gmx.de> <50F90BEF.8080604@treenet.co.nz>
In-Reply-To: <50F90BEF.8080604@treenet.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.19; envelope-from=julian.reschke@gmx.de; helo=mout.gmx.net
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.5
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-3.450, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Tw7vW-0007Ok-Pl 19631ca80b51ef91bb7c0ed65f9852db
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: #428 Accept-Language ordering for identical qvalues
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/50F910C8.5010200@gmx.de>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/15989
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On 2013-01-18 09:46, Amos Jeffries wrote:
> ...
> ...
> I'm with Roy on this one. It's not adding any new requirement about
> interpretation, simply stating that the list is ordered, as is actually
> the case from most senders.
> There is no requirement added/removed about server interpretation so
> those servers implementing random selection out of the ordered set are
> still compliant. Those servers implementing ordered interpretation are
 > ...

They are? How so?

If the client sends

	Accept-Language: en, de

and the server returns German text, although English would have been 
available, is it still compliant?

> now compliant - where before with the list defined as un-ordered they
> would be non-compliant due to mis-interpreting an un-ordered list as
> ordered.

That doesn't make sense, sorry.

If the list ordering is defined to be irrelevant it's totally ok to pick 
the first match.

> ...
>> Right now they interoperate as specified by the spec. If we change the
>> spec, they do not anymore (or only some of the time).
>>
>
> The new spec does not forbid random selection. Merely states that the
> client *wants* it to be interpreted non-randomly. Obeying that client
> preference is still optional.
> ...

Again, that doesn't make any sense at all.

If we say that the list is ordered by preference (in absence of 
qvalues), this implies that a recipient should pick the *first* matching 
language. If it does not, it's not interpreting the message as defined.

Best regards, Julian