Re: Weeklong intermittent regional 911 outages -- I blame QUIC.

Eric J Bowman <mellowmutt@zoho.com> Thu, 27 June 2024 17:44 UTC

Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) id 8DEE6C14F6E3; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3E0C14F6AF for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.857
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.857 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=w3.org header.b="dyE6M9hu"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=w3.org header.b="ElJZIS98"; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=zoho.com header.b="PT7bLQRC"
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZJ1xTn8s29DN for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:43:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mab.w3.org (mab.w3.org [IPv6:2600:1f18:7d7a:2700:d091:4b25:8566:8113]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E109FC14F6A8 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietf.org>; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:43:58 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=w3.org; s=s1; h=Subject:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Message-Id: Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To; bh=yYqTH8zKcg8kLFQIME+WCdE4qURcdtpAbG+vl0vRFnw=; b= dyE6M9huzQLulJqnKrAOw2ti20o6B9C8JgH1qxC1RKgDqXabH4nh4Md2pXf4yLiY7g/mAWc18JPrY mFwXQbiMloQmn68AZE3ZdrdJJeOWTkn7nDDkD3lCD93K59HldY3DRql1kJgwMgM5WexzHCPyfVvz4 1Eg8RYtqHDuMZ1iNExcnSHYtkTOADpy53yDuHqGDgRgoYk5lbK6OJc8bi9JMIlknXJ/xMmBx2c7jR DAoI+4Q9vJUMNaFVVye/QK4wLF5cCiWW4qEJ2F3lVy6YXl1dQYMx6p+54Qb/Z7g963p8Hbqv1KWUT 9dpZdSI8hnhSMu2WtGOeIITg/RNHRRUasg==;
Received: from lists by mab.w3.org with local (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1sMt97-003ODE-2F for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 17:42:57 +0000
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 17:42:57 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1sMt97-003ODE-2F@mab.w3.org>
Received: from ip-10-0-0-144.ec2.internal ([10.0.0.144] helo=pan.w3.org) by mab.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <mellowmutt@zoho.com>) id 1sMt95-003OCJ-2F for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.internal; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 17:42:55 +0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=w3.org; s=s1; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Message-Id: Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To; bh=yYqTH8zKcg8kLFQIME+WCdE4qURcdtpAbG+vl0vRFnw=; t=1719510175; x=1720374175; b=ElJZIS98fyJhLjo7CDL/W3B6GtVk1pc6KZOF4caCeC8L7Oq 8bJ3M1NOct9QWNFO9NYCMBXBnxZZY6PwZ5DI2OtLXVsd5ECNwZxLi4aacSNZvlRPvykbcF8pBWj2i nOuIssklnnkf1ahP08vi+shi4D2INuxyoQthVHwz7RMMHRvV9BpCol3/+930nQVADLd0dlwVVVQVB qnPOpKxtD5CTf8GW2DcfDSmfWrejo1isyzalkPsUPDBhmVdCDXrg+gKDu9q/Kc4BT6nuKru2q1ovt KYN16v/yoRsOUyfO19K72pTk4Vddyw67ebLXCodE+srac8aVb4Mg5BAwMxfpYGtA==;
Received-SPF: pass (pan.w3.org: domain of zoho.com designates 136.143.188.91 as permitted sender) client-ip=136.143.188.91; envelope-from=mellowmutt@zoho.com; helo=sender4-pp-o91.zoho.com;
Received: from sender4-pp-o91.zoho.com ([136.143.188.91]) by pan.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <mellowmutt@zoho.com>) id 1sMt94-002GYF-35 for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 17:42:55 +0000
Delivered-To: mellowmutt@zoho.com
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1719510169; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=FnnkX6aFJGJUt0oW8semLSsw2usWAVqR+h5obxAdKqGuu7N4YNEQ94mnz+ZGQ0b8tdY26ouB37IhJkWAVvTwyVvgImQJg08NDl0M+RCR43raLpdiCL5MlZztYbvSC15DgZe7PHdLmaq1Y5Q0mjd2z39ptxRCLd8p4PRE3t8dU98=
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1719510169; h=Content-Type:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:From:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:Subject:To:To:Message-Id:Reply-To; bh=yYqTH8zKcg8kLFQIME+WCdE4qURcdtpAbG+vl0vRFnw=; b=O0962HrI01YSRBbr03967CJwNLh+OXid26mKEl8Fxp/cACcyV1vMC7hLacF8aIJ1rjg5jOn+3bUEKdIavaznbXx0rGeCVWMZp/Q1F3lx4fZg9mbfXqxphIHw8HimuuFk9xUluIP7cn+l2eSm+d2sS1AemRp+sS7b+Y/uxV3U1IM=
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=mellowmutt@zoho.com; dmarc=pass header.from=<mellowmutt@zoho.com>
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1719510169; s=zm2022; d=zoho.com; i=mellowmutt@zoho.com; h=Date:Date:From:From:To:To:Cc:Cc:Message-Id:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Feedback-ID:Reply-To; bh=yYqTH8zKcg8kLFQIME+WCdE4qURcdtpAbG+vl0vRFnw=; b=PT7bLQRCCFSNbFZLn93M/KEGI1eZb6AMZnBXH3avGClhc1PSdie/Dis4kb2cwQBZ G6a1H7TXi+50mdt7GfY+TTNs3DKWtJEfwJBGVNY17CPyRZpnWpSDR2m2CHIkr73rLvR cTGOvKq1ztRLSlvpRqVoFfSs5guTAp1AB2OiWDjY=
Received: from mail.zoho.com by mx.zohomail.com with SMTP id 1719510166889129.369771209826; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:42:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [65.117.211.248] by mail.zoho.com with HTTP;Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:42:46 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:42:46 -0700
From: Eric J Bowman <mellowmutt@zoho.com>
To: Eric J Bowman <mellowmutt@zoho.com>
Cc: Ietf Http Wg <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <1905acaed5c.fadc0c2b42410.2677040511863753954@zoho.com>
In-Reply-To: <1900f43a927.1041f595838570.1760105734293573684@zoho.com>
References: <1900f43a927.1041f595838570.1760105734293573684@zoho.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_112221_109072888.1719510166876"
Importance: Medium
User-Agent: Zoho Mail
X-Mailer: Zoho Mail
Feedback-ID: rr08011228d75e20225f30ef6a3fececd100005ba3f5da269a9c71c4006b73b3ffb82cf0e2fe70e2448033cd28:zu080112279975d6b018777c9746b5a53a000095d4a9e5b5dc65b7c3154f784c1856d807058094ef0d8faf54:rf08011226677fc1a0df5bb33676e6f0580000679433ae5c8f77f1d8148aafbfd6949461806cecd21d1c31:ZohoMail
X-W3C-Hub-DKIM-Status: validation passed: (address=mellowmutt@zoho.com domain=zoho.com), signature is good
X-W3C-Hub-DKIM-Status: validation passed: (address=mellowmutt@zoho.com domain=mellowmutt@zoho.com), signature is good
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: ARC_SIGNED=0.001, ARC_VALID=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, DMARC_PASS=-0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: pan.w3.org 1sMt94-002GYF-35 d4938a6dce8828b1dc0955092defae0a
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Weeklong intermittent regional 911 outages -- I blame QUIC.
Archived-At: <https://www.w3.org/mid/1905acaed5c.fadc0c2b42410.2677040511863753954@zoho.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/52033
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <https://www.w3.org/email/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

They've stabilized phone service here, but the network outages are more frequent and of greater duration, as we hit peak tourist season... no data service for the past 36 hours, goes for all resorts in the Colorado Rockies due to the QUIC DDoS effect which leads to this proposal:



HTTP 3.1 - fix QUIC



When the network comes back up, it takes up to 30 minutes for non-QUIC traffic to get through, as QUIC shoves everything else (except SCTP, j/s) aside. The senior level-one net engineers can't route around this problem. Tells me simply, no ifs ands or buts, that QUIC is broken.



Thanks,

Eric