RE: Push and Caching

William Chow <wchow@mobolize.com> Tue, 26 August 2014 20:23 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE3B1A8822 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:23:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.57
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zxl-KhQXEQci for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:23:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF3AC1A02A3 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Aug 2014 13:23:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1XMNEP-0001aQ-Rp for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:20:41 +0000
Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:20:41 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1XMNEP-0001aQ-Rp@frink.w3.org>
Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <wchow@mobolize.com>) id 1XMNE9-0001Zd-Qj for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:20:25 +0000
Received: from mail-bn1bon0055.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([157.56.111.55] helo=na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by lisa.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <wchow@mobolize.com>) id 1XMNE8-0003SF-Dj for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:20:25 +0000
Received: from DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.176.22) by DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.176.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1010.18; Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:19:47 +0000
Received: from DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.176.22]) by DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.176.22]) with mapi id 15.00.1010.016; Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:19:47 +0000
From: William Chow <wchow@mobolize.com>
To: "Roy T. Fielding" <fielding@gbiv.com>, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
CC: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Thread-Topic: Push and Caching
Thread-Index: Ac+7v7yD0ZTj4Oj/Q2KCGy9THej6JgAEtB4AABO1Y4AAWKDXwAAA/BiwAAXBIYAAAme3gAAhH1uAAAA6DAAAlYD1AAANDLGAAACCPIAAB4OXAAADQUAAAAGZ9YAAAComUAABTwAAAAIQZQAAFMvjAAAAi1OAAANr5IAAAPXfgAAB508w
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:19:46 +0000
Message-ID: <02fc4b73d8004853b4286d02acbcc942@DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <dc3d860ecb4b4d408a5ed0519a036e61@BL2PR03MB132.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CABkgnnWvKgyDcm-1jEKZUA2Qza9M46X+X_QybwuqRwvSUrTjNw@mail.gmail.com> <B6B89855-237F-44DA-B29C-2A3BB5CE0EED@mnot.net> <920b92b90a3c47ef8d450c903b83af40@DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <d94a3acceb954583a61b0118381df417@BL2PR03MB132.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CAOdDvNpa5WR4LJbsgQaBE3bTSAc+gXfYqCmV+zmUzE5b7+1a9A@mail.gmail.com> <CECA0C1A-E64C-443A-87AF-22BC66286F72@mnot.net> <CABkgnnXVJA3R4qhc__k4j+_LzeS7B24VxfCZwBSfywepEx=tKA@mail.gmail.com> <40d03e3bb1df480e808e64fa29048880@BL2PR03MB132.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CABkgnnX-0X+JZfFYhm18b=bLidaq_pqN5s-K0NBS28m-s6+9Kg@mail.gmail.com> <233C8C21-BF80-4E07-9717-56630085E192@mnot.net> <CABkgnnW9Uq5R1KvuTXuT=xUdX_pVWikyAOMp=ixJe+c0NRs4Lg@mail.gmail.com> <CAH_y2NHV_966DSX4yX-=tfDPUkk-obCXFbJnPifQpFb1KFjYDg@mail.gmail.com> <7d2fdc975fec4646b21e86620a834e72@DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2C38B85E-7290-4AE3-A886-12A329DE449C@mnot.net> <C ACweHNAxpaZRsK-Uu5biSvzt3kLhY4Bcw4pQgXSVcKYmKK-E_w@mail.gmail.com> <D92F296B-3E9A-42B3-978C-AC319C072C60@mnot.net> <9C64D35C-49BF-47F7-8D72-EFA2DA546FEA@gbiv.com> <22238EC5-50F4-4611-9FED-39E3D7B67B10@gbiv.com> <CABkgnnWssBqVw+aSb_8y80JBRWkQ8H+MPvmYZ7MyzOkYUQwWTQ@mail.gmail.com> <DE38D1FB-C9E1-441F-BDCE-9258714E0D96@gbiv.com>
In-Reply-To: <DE38D1FB-C9E1-441F-BDCE-9258714E0D96@gbiv.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [96.251.72.195]
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;UriScan:;
x-forefront-prvs: 03152A99FF
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009011)(6009001)(199003)(189002)(92566001)(76176999)(4396001)(33646002)(101416001)(108616004)(107046002)(93886004)(105586002)(99396002)(83072002)(87936001)(95666004)(31966008)(21056001)(76576001)(74662001)(74316001)(83322001)(106356001)(79102001)(85306004)(50986999)(85852003)(77982001)(66066001)(46102001)(90102001)(99286002)(81542001)(2656002)(81342001)(80022001)(86362001)(64706001)(54356999)(20776003)(74502001)(76482001)(24736002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR05MB670; H:DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en;
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: mobolize.com
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=157.56.111.55; envelope-from=wchow@mobolize.com; helo=na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.5
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-3.450, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1XMNE8-0003SF-Dj 7fdae2091bf8b997980aa473b3edcc80
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: RE: Push and Caching
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/02fc4b73d8004853b4286d02acbcc942@DM2PR05MB670.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/26747
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

> If anything 7234 uses validation in the instantaneous sense 
> exclusively.  Freshness seems to be the only concept that is 
> associated with a time period, but we're carefully avoiding that here.
> This, to my reading, is breaking new ground.  And people are right to 
> notice the prefetch and request combining features as having 
> interactions with this, even though those seem to be confined to web 
> use cases.

7234 refers to a response being valid in direct correspondence to a specific request. With HTTP2 and server push, there can be multiple responses that directly correspond to that "original request" (this is the term used in the HTTP2 draft). For server push to be effective, we really need this validity/freshness to expand to be 1-N relationship between the original request and all of the responses returned from the server for that request. We don't need to state how that is done (e.g. UAs/clients may implement a navigation context) but it doesn't help the recipient to understand the scope of validity for a pushed response if that validity is not relative to anything but itself.

> Pushed responses are considered successfully validated on the origin 
> server (...) at the time that the response is generated.

So, going back to the proposed language, it seems we can address this for HTTP2 because we have the notion of the "original request", such as: "Pushed responses are considered valid (...) at the time that the response for the original request is generated."

--Will