Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-httpbis-tunnel-protocol

"Adrien de Croy" <adrien@qbik.com> Thu, 26 March 2015 23:41 UTC

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From: Adrien de Croy <adrien@qbik.com>
To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 23:36:11 +0000
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Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-httpbis-tunnel-protocol
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hi Martin

I must have misread something then, because it seems to me from the 
draft that the Tunnel-Protocol header is intended to contain what either

a) could be in a TLS ALPN negotiation if the next layer is TLS (T-P 
identifies the next layer after TLS)
b) would identify the protocol directly if the next layer is not  TLS 
(T-P identifies the next layer)

and that it be the same token(s) whether or not the next layer is TLS.   
E.g. explicity NOT 2 versions of an ALPN token one of which indicates 
the presence of TLS and one not.

So I can't see how the same ALPN token can distinguish that the next 
layer is TLS or not unless it must always be TLS, in which case you're 
at pains to avoid saying so and my question would then be why?

My personal opinion is that TLS is as much a protocol as anything else 
and if the next layer in a tunnel is TLS, then it's just an error to not 
say so or to say it's something else.  It just breaks the basic layering 
that the internet is based on.

This is what Amos was referring to I believe when he suggested 
indicating TLS and then using TLS ALPN for the next layer after that.

Regards

Adrien




------ Original Message ------
From: "Martin Thomson" <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
To: "Adrien de Croy" <adrien@qbik.com>
Cc: "Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net>; "HTTP Working Group" 
<ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Sent: 27/03/2015 2:52:27 a.m.
Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call for 
draft-ietf-httpbis-tunnel-protocol

>On 25 March 2015 at 16:12, Adrien de Croy <adrien@qbik.com> wrote:
>>  The feedback from proxy vendors on this proposed header seems to have 
>>been
>>  largely ignored.
>
>I'm sorry if you think that is the case, because that was certainly
>not my interpretation of the discussion.
>
>The answer to your concern was that application tokens identify the
>entire protocol precisely. This is the decision regarding ALPN use
>that has been codified into HTTP/2.
>
>I understand that this made a few people sad and they wanted something
>else - primarily something that had explicit and separate
>identification for TLS - but we don't have an alternative that is
>well-enough defined to use.
>