Re: [Int-area] New version of WPADNG

[Josh Cohen <[e-mail]>]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 11:00 PM Watson Ladd <[e-mail]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024, 7:36 PM Josh Cohen <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > You lost me with the nuclear submarine reference.  I'm guessing instead
> of a terminal room, the IETF now has a navy?
>
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter She wasn't made for
> sitting around.
>
> >
> > The coffee shop gives you your IP address, default route to the
> Internet, DNS servers and other DHCP options. It often has a captive
> portal, which may also have a transparent proxy that filters, can eavesdrop
> or otherwise abuse you. It is *their* network after all, you are just a
> guest.  That's aside from chai latte sipping wifi snoopers and the general
> jungle of public wifi.
>
> So what's WPAD doing here? It's just another way to get that traffic
> to the wrong place. Again, the Internet threat model has the network
> be untrusted. That might be bad news for the vendors of devices that
> don't work that way, but that's what the RFC and design says. And
> indeed the coffee shop router shouldn't be trusted.
>
> I am having dejavu.  We had a similar debate 25 years ago.  Proxy servers
in general weren't exactly popular because they violate the end-to-end
ethos.  With respect to the network being untrusted, enterprises will push
back on that.  They will do things that seem draconian.

> >
> >
> > I'm definitely getting the "WPAD suxorz" vibe, but what's missing are
> answers to how scenarios WPAD currently addresses will be addressed without
> it.
> >
> > At work, your computer uses your enterprise's proxy.  When you arrive at
> the coffeeshop, will you go into your computer's settings and turn off the
> proxy?  When you go back to work the next day, will you go back into your
> settings and turn it on again?
>
>
> I think this scenario is due to some fundamental confusion. What is
> the enterprise proxy doing? Why is it safe to turn off that function
> at the coffeeshop or entrust it to some random person given the
> computer will be back on the network the next day? And if the
> enterprise network needs to administer hosts, it can do that through
> much better ways.
>
> I was assuming a situation where the enterprise proxy is not accessible
from outside of the enterprise network.


> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 7:50 PM Watson Ladd <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> One adversary is willing to devote an entire nuclear submarine to the
> >> task. They are more than willing to use existing vulnerabilities in
> >> ways that you never hear about because they are good at their jobs.
> >>
> >> If you use network links to configure your device, and the device goes
> >> to the coffeeshop, that coffeeshop gets to configure the device.
> >> That's just inherently a bad idea, and always has been.
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >> Watson Ladd
> >>
> >> --
> >> Astra mortemque praestare gradatim
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ---
> > Josh Cohen
>


-- 

---
*Josh Co*hen