Re: [tcpm] TCP Tuning for HTTP - update

Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> Wed, 17 August 2016 23:26 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34FB512D7FB for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:26:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -8.167
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.167 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.247, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2TdgKO8Ii5JD for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:26:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40C0F12D7F5 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:26:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1baAAU-0000H0-7e for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2016 23:22:42 +0000
Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 23:22:42 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1baAAU-0000H0-7e@frink.w3.org>
Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <touch@isi.edu>) id 1baAAO-0000Ex-Sy for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2016 23:22:36 +0000
Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <touch@isi.edu>) id 1baAAN-0001NA-2y for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2016 23:22:36 +0000
Received: from [128.9.184.210] ([128.9.184.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u7HNKuqh021529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:20:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: Adrien de Croy <adrien@qbik.com>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
References: <ema6771211-5d5d-4106-b3f0-87616b83f9f6@bodybag>
Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>, Daniel Stenberg <daniel@haxx.se>
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Message-ID: <33f35249-7c7f-40bc-c24b-a0f471427e4c@isi.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:20:54 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <ema6771211-5d5d-4106-b3f0-87616b83f9f6@bodybag>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C37E2CC18571EAC4F9C39822"
X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu
Received-SPF: none client-ip=128.9.64.64; envelope-from=touch@isi.edu; helo=vapor.isi.edu
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.4
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1baAAN-0001NA-2y 5fd486ecca808c01476b90f95f93b6ed
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: [tcpm] TCP Tuning for HTTP - update
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/33f35249-7c7f-40bc-c24b-a0f471427e4c@isi.edu>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/32295
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>


On 8/17/2016 4:17 PM, Adrien de Croy wrote:
>> FTP had a passive mode even back then that avoids this issue. It also
>> had suspend/resume, compression, and format conversion.
>
> Those all take more round trips to negotiate.  As for format
> conversion..... bad idea, never should have been the server's job.
Sure, but they can be negotiated once for a connection.

FTP also supports wildcard retrieval (e.g., "get *"), which can help
with anticipation.

My point is that FTP could have been much better place to start towards
a transaction protocol.

Joe