Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP
Jacob Champion <champion.p@gmail.com> Mon, 05 December 2016 18:14 UTC
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To: Van Catha <vans554@gmail.com>, Andy Green <andy@warmcat.com>
References: <CAOdDvNqk7W_oNWUismMb-ZuhvdboZNDQ0YV2BLsbka-FGC-7oA@mail.gmail.com> <CANatvzx=mOQ3kE-vnvwNvD2w26+RNTueHgu7BhHLnJixn0vRcw@mail.gmail.com> <9e6f1a46-a782-a688-5b16-836d28032823@treenet.co.nz> <1480646012.4219.21.camel@warmcat.com> <CAOdDvNqShPUdu6zt-dPDpXm31eP2xX_dahrTr8JEbOOGQFFNSw@mail.gmail.com> <220b575c-a953-a8fe-1591-00d1e676b201@gmail.com> <CAOdDvNpdxHWj97S=A+Xtf5k3aWfSWg6AStxji4PKemw=xnH_XQ@mail.gmail.com> <7d0180d5-b3fa-dc7f-e211-a6b9ae0d826c@gmail.com> <A5761229-B012-496C-8AFD-C9FBC85DB4FC@warmcat.com> <af3a3783-4cf6-6e30-4d3c-c7e856894f9f@gmail.com> <568365B5-5F46-4F8B-AAC6-E687116B8DD0@warmcat.com> <f1823fb8-5719-6ac6-d1d5-76ba4265d851@gmail.com> <CAG-EYChDjkEhNrT+GFXsHE_2Df5-NKzyhpJmRivFpReheHR4nw@mail.gmail.com> <1480906979.4219.31.camel@warmcat.com> <CAG-EYCjhoXthjt7HsaV0MprZigJtzUOK=o7ybPwvj+uXwmBO1Q@mail.gmail.com> <1480910296.4219.33.camel@warmcat.com> <CAG-EYCh8CO9hivjaedeBzNN1eUhs585yAYa2WsHZeaBtx3gSoA@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Patrick McManus <mcmanus@ducksong.com>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
From: Jacob Champion <champion.p@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d332ca91-394b-0ca5-9adc-ed9286e3ad05@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2016 10:10:36 -0800
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Subject: Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP
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On 12/05/2016 07:56 AM, Van Catha wrote: > BUT what WS1 did not consider is you could have a zombie socket from > client->server, WS1 did not expose any API to check ping/pong this > way. This is not correct. WebSocket, as a protocol, is distinct from the JS API. WebSocket, as a protocol, has client->server pings. And there are WebSocket client implementations that expose them. Autobahn|Python, for example. > So to repeat making the mistakes of the past we have two options. #1 > Take ping out altogether as its broken, no browser > client implemented the ability to send pings to server. The fact that browsers did not see fit to use a part of the protocol does not mean that the protocol is "broken", IMHO. The JS API is not WebSocket; please don't conflate the two. Now: perhaps your goal is that WS/2 should be an incompatible upgrade that streamlines and removes redundancies between HTTP/2 and WebSocket? If so, I think that's a reasonable thing to propose. I just disagree with it; I think the protocol is more likely to succeed if existing WebSocket implementations can transparently switch between WS/1 and WS/2 transports as needed. --Jacob
- 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Mark Nottingham
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Martin Thomson
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Kazuho Oku
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Kazuho Oku
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Mark Nottingham
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Kazuho Oku
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Amos Jeffries
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Willy Tarreau
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Loïc Hoguin
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Cory Benfield
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Van Catha
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Van Catha
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Andy Green
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Van Catha
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Van Catha
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Martin J. Dürst
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Patrick McManus
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Wenbo Zhu
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Mark Nottingham
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Loïc Hoguin
- Re: 6455 Websockets and the relationship to HTTP Jacob Champion