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To: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
From: "Eliot Lear (elear)" <elear@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <C3C714B9-28C5-4AC4-BD1E-EA416B3F445B@mnot.net>
Resent-From: Yves Lafon <ylafon@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 00:49:49 +0000
Cc: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>,
 Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
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Resent-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Adjustments to our work mode - please read
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/44E356B8-DB31-4C8A-A465-33CF2D35F086@cisco.com>
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Ok thanks. =20

And I'm really sorry I missed it.  Twice.=20

I'd still ask that you keep the mailing list informed as to the status =
of issues and when they are coming to closure.  There are many reasons =
for this. One is that it should be possible for people to work with =
intermittent connectivity.   Another is simply that many are not =
accustomed to GitHub.=20

Most work in groups just follow the the established process of using =
email as 2418 discusses and so don't need this sort of stuff.  You are =
going beyond what was envisioned at the time.  Fine.  But that does =
require extra care and you've shown that you've gone to those lengths.=20=


Eliot

On Oct 6, 2015, at 8:32 PM, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote:

>> On 7 Oct 2015, at 11:07 am, Eliot Lear (elear) <elear@cisco.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> Where at that link do you discuss the interaction with the mailing =
list or anything else in that message?  Please quote because I can't =
find it, as I wrote.
>=20
> The points from my original e-mail were these:
>=20
>> - Summarise (with links) the design issues closed by each draft when =
it is announced on this list
>=20
> =46rom [1]: "When a new draft is published, the design issues that =
have been closed since the last draft will be highlighted on the mailing =
list, to aid reviewers."
>=20
>> - Allow issues to be re-opened when someone brings substantive new =
information (as always)
>=20
> =46rom [1]: "If substantive new information is brought to our =
attention, issues can be reopened by the Chair."
>=20
>> - Allow those who do not wish to use the issues list to comment on =
this mailing list
>=20
> =46rom [1]: "Design issues require discussion and consensus in the =
Working Group. This discussion can happen both in the issue and on the =
Working Group mailing list."
>=20
>> - Provide a separate, announce-only mailing list that is subscribed =
to every issue change, for those who do not want to use a github account =
to receive notifications. See: =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-issues>
>=20
> This is not in [1]. Do you think it should be there? I was planning on =
adding it elsewhere on the site.
>=20
> So what exactly can't you find -- are you looking for something else =
that isn't above, or did you just fail to find the link even though I =
gave the title, or...? Please be as precise as you can, as I'm getting =
frustrated pointing out the same information to you repeatedly, and I =
don't *think* you're enjoying this either.
>=20
> I have no doubt that [1] can be improved -- indeed, after some offline =
discussion with Ted, there are a number of ways I think we can make it a =
more friendly and complete document -- especially around how decisions =
are made (which is more about reminding people how consensus works in =
the IETF and relating that to the work mode). However, most WGs don't =
have any such document, so I'm finding it a bit ironic to hear you rail =
about "transparency."
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
>=20
> [1] =
https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> Eliot
>>=20
>>> On Oct 6, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On 6 Oct 2015, at 11:05 pm, Eliot Lear (elear) <elear@cisco.com> =
wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Honestly if you put up that process on your GitHub home page I'd be =
satisfied (if it's there I can't find it).  Better to make clear through =
IETF mechanisms that people from other WGs are used to.
>>>=20
>>> I explained that in the e-mail that you're responding to:
>>>=20
>>> """
>>> It is documented, on our WG home page - <https://httpwg.github.io/>, =
currently linked as "How to Contribute - start here" (as well as from =
the navigation bar from every page on that site). We regularly show the =
home page link at our meetings, it's easily found by any search engine, =
and it's linked from our charter.
>>> """
>>>=20
>>> If you have suggestions on how to improve the link's visibility, =
they're welcome.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
>=20
> --
> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
>=20