Re: #428 Accept-Language ordering for identical qvalues

"Eric J. Bowman" <eric@bisonsystems.net> Thu, 14 February 2013 01:40 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C3A21F86AD for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:40:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2tLyv+-3Ht+6 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:40:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154D221F86AC for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:40:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1U5nn0-0002IM-F9 for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:39:06 +0000
Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:39:06 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1U5nn0-0002IM-F9@frink.w3.org>
Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <eric@bisonsystems.net>) id 1U5nmt-0002G3-6q for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:38:59 +0000
Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net ([216.86.168.183]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <eric@bisonsystems.net>) id 1U5nmm-0002Gg-Jm for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:38:59 +0000
Received: from WINBISON (unknown [65.117.211.162]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EA731509BA; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:38:30 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:38:22 -0700
From: "Eric J. Bowman" <eric@bisonsystems.net>
To: "Roy T. Fielding" <fielding@gbiv.com>
Cc: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20130213183822.b277d42502ba961fb757d619@bisonsystems.net>
In-Reply-To: <7937E7D3-8870-4189-B9EF-AE178E6CB13B@gbiv.com>
References: <50F6CD98.8080802@gmx.de> <99A8B4D1-BE1B-4965-9B78-1EC90455E102@mnot.net> <F4C2A095-50C7-451B-9AFF-A200592CCB4D@gbiv.com> <98F554C9-4FCB-47E4-A018-FE02558FEA49@mnot.net> <6E9D9BB9-A5F5-417A-A640-AF03AFCC6496@gbiv.com> <20130213080845.377e969d34ef48ae92aee519@bisonsystems.net> <7937E7D3-8870-4189-B9EF-AE178E6CB13B@gbiv.com>
Organization: Bison Systems Corporation
X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.10.14; i686-pc-mingw32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=216.86.168.183; envelope-from=eric@bisonsystems.net; helo=mxout-08.mxes.net
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-2.338, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1U5nmm-0002Gg-Jm 4cd5adf8c3a2e159ad8bfdedb98f07c0
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: #428 Accept-Language ordering for identical qvalues
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/20130213183822.b277d42502ba961fb757d619@bisonsystems.net>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/16604
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

"Roy T. Fielding" wrote:
>
> It has been a bad design trade-off ever since the very
> brief period in 1993-94 when folks didn't know which image format
> would be usable on all UAs and there was no CSS or javascript to allow
> for client-side adaptation.
> 

Well, that explains it!  That's when I got my start as a Web developer,
I think the rest of my career may be summed up as trying to un-learn
those bad habits...

>
> There are numerous ways to accomplish the same feature of HTTP
> content negotiation without the horrific bandwidth waste and
> privacy exposure of proactive negotiation. The caching impact of
> proactive negotiation is far worse than the one extra round trip
> per site for reactive negotiation, and even that round-trip isn't
> necessary in formats that support client-side adaptation.
> Defining protocol elements for reactive negotiation is one
> alternative. Encouraging the use of media types with inherent content
> selection/alternative abilities is another.
> Responsive design (or progressive refinement) is probably the most
> common example in practice today.
> 

OK, thanks for elaborating.

-Eric