Re: Report on preliminary decision on TLS 1.3 and client auth

Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> Thu, 22 October 2015 21:07 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506481B2E31 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.012
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.012 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pdU6tC_ux9wv for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A63761ACD92 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1ZpN1j-0003FM-Dn for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:03:59 +0000
Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:03:59 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1ZpN1j-0003FM-Dn@frink.w3.org>
Received: from maggie.w3.org ([128.30.52.39]) by frink.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <martin.thomson@gmail.com>) id 1ZpN1g-0003Ef-33 for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:03:56 +0000
Received: from mail-yk0-f179.google.com ([209.85.160.179]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_ARCFOUR_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <martin.thomson@gmail.com>) id 1ZpN1e-000421-Fr for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:03:55 +0000
Received: by ykba4 with SMTP id a4so90160285ykb.3 for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=/gRt+qxko1ObDH5sSBK+YE+KPLRKTkQqXIdHcBSdLxg=; b=HkqiRPFFxofwSdzqJisA/z9kZ1vkd2aHKpX+ecYySyUT+/axPOksnAPPV4TqHhShQj ip68vMyUKFwBY4uplsxFxeTiYcKTTc9xf7UiOyXXY/WnCvyu9T9xsTXd894rwSDtHEmQ xTx5s1Y9NakPhZKFJu28C7bxUU5W3GNYJEhpcat84F6tF0DVwyIcK5r7/pbooRWy7SvU I2RXVnGmPxBTyG+3mXn5778SfW+dPoPUwgjMzXTPP6yK1hcnS9CvCgumkUpVix66nvNA YSimGMEMj+fEyxsB9kukhMlqD7/Dggsx5yUptluV0HmokKasV5x0LM0Q+R1mBDvuZ9zA qfqw==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.13.196.196 with SMTP id g187mr14103623ywd.98.1445547808070; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.129.132.145 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:03:27 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAJU8_nW44dLrATV=P3SSCQ7VSJk+yyV=2F+1q5KKP5pZ6RO53Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABkgnnWREq6X+chcvookChGAZGxkJ6Zs_7FGwz7Mbn12XMxewQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAJU8_nW44dLrATV=P3SSCQ7VSJk+yyV=2F+1q5KKP5pZ6RO53Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:03:27 -0700
Message-ID: <CABkgnnXy+wOEi2vCfhVmrjyboTKBqzkUOncS==QLaMOYo5YQhA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
To: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>
Cc: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.160.179; envelope-from=martin.thomson@gmail.com; helo=mail-yk0-f179.google.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.9
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=1.840, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_DB=-1, W3C_IRA=-1, W3C_IRR=-3, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1ZpN1e-000421-Fr c1f41c4a32e55b05d0b8c80e53e3845b
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Report on preliminary decision on TLS 1.3 and client auth
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/CABkgnnXy+wOEi2vCfhVmrjyboTKBqzkUOncS==QLaMOYo5YQhA@mail.gmail.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/30397
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On 22 October 2015 at 11:11, Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org> wrote:
> The way in which this is relevant is that it would be nice to present the
> user a better error than "ssl_error_handshake_failure_alert" in the case of
> an expired or missing certificate.

That is a choice the server makes.  The server is perfectly able to
complete a handshake and then deny the HTTP request.  I know that many
do not because that's more work to do right, but it's an option.

I wouldn't interpret this as a defense of the client certificate UX in
browsers.  But I don't expect that to change significantly, our UX
people have a lot of work to do, most of it much more important than
this.