Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS
William Chan (陈智昌) <willchan@chromium.org> Tue, 30 July 2013 00:00 UTC
Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE83321F9B30 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:00:29 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.676
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.676 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qzj-PKAe1Un9 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:00:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63DCD21F9B28 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:00:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1V3xLe-0007DZ-9T for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 23:59:30 +0000
Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 23:59:30 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1V3xLe-0007DZ-9T@frink.w3.org>
Received: from maggie.w3.org ([128.30.52.39]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <willchan@google.com>) id 1V3xLV-0007Bk-8O for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 23:59:21 +0000
Received: from mail-ob0-f171.google.com ([209.85.214.171]) by maggie.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_ARCFOUR_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <willchan@google.com>) id 1V3xLU-0006sK-39 for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 23:59:21 +0000
Received: by mail-ob0-f171.google.com with SMTP id tb18so10644291obb.2 for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 16:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=3BhvZhjxqxVu3l/ns5j0FgfswNhfjEnrK9ZUxrSi/yc=; b=ireyFqHTekvhNPZGRJKirmC7X0CYYnCe2mq65e4bSGjN2f/m9KG4rPcxejDxfJZJIK FQOBfa/oJEjP7F9M7O7KLdF+YV9YsqhpZwzhYMd0hSFszc7KkoYI1InFH23B5iW3ihC0 I5PacNJ357YygM61FqRqzrZXvSfKMS0kS57UGm5KD0Zz3JQHHW0BceWV8imYyPqgu2yc qSjip7II/5KG5g1RN4kJBGylOiGPjEprI8leeGw8sMJStCpC5J0WlZ4JiT94Rk5hDBrR jCUE7LmYupfROg4P/RrjN6TU1qlONGR4y8zwLbcM+PctGNjb+8gHbpIhz6J1JtNb+LGf uBAA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=chromium.org; s=google; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=3BhvZhjxqxVu3l/ns5j0FgfswNhfjEnrK9ZUxrSi/yc=; b=O6n27t+mO/Chnkr+cD+frzuNj8p0Qp7I7lKUeKZrPvV+Ad1Go0GYXspO+aYLZWAZoo 9E1sFkFfil66itZeELVu3XxYzzgFJo8ptFHgfyQ9Uu1K+U0TYepvDh+3mwAB9yvFNvKg ISgxl1KtCrL7qnAo0MtenLdZYJrDNFFBnf4bI=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=3BhvZhjxqxVu3l/ns5j0FgfswNhfjEnrK9ZUxrSi/yc=; b=cl7WyZZ7gL/nIrDwHra5K4GIztU6GIEZLeQPYa4ei51y/mUmMj1g4afhL4CPoY1kUh K8WbHNWpyXhZBMHAt6avdri6hx0oNOJHcjbcfT+RqRJqOEs22dh4ASMHGd1Jp8bidrHo BS1lswchDEFCZjzjQUdedxXHohxoW5s7K7a4083ljuSrmmg4rYbGKOHHcTye6zVMKoTu gejCxOoL0DKf9keeUmsKIr2Jf0cjLALhZBqCuMsYVn4hOaob0/NdutkXbHf07kj3UjPu bm9pEpYksxPMkcCjBa1p5339dEC7y0PzAAnsL4W/x0TKvo9QbQiCUHxQngye5qGXpack whDQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.50.153.49 with SMTP id vd17mr1267678igb.22.1375142333854; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 16:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: willchan@google.com
Received: by 10.64.23.7 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 16:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CANmPAYEsngMs+x3WLrUm10YRCoi2vrnzKDDt_N+5V9fdcqk9YA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <32754_1375115822_51F69A2E_32754_8403_1_5AE9CCAA1B4A2248AB61B4C7F0AD5FB906C6BC40@PEXCVZYM14.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CAA4WUYhj0-h4MeL7pJC-gq_bZjnj7KHHUv5YQJGkf_7wGkyGFA@mail.gmail.com> <CAA4WUYj9W0abSpwxf7eGR3CMWkOpqDL1kzyRxfSXRj5bphjsiw@mail.gmail.com> <CANmPAYEsngMs+x3WLrUm10YRCoi2vrnzKDDt_N+5V9fdcqk9YA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 16:58:53 -0700
X-Google-Sender-Auth: ZT3wri-_PEZMY8mV5zSwl5RnbpY
Message-ID: <CAA4WUYjMFxAznaXdgz28GjFM4z_n5s811oNT61jQ9Xndkb=7GQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: "William Chan (陈智昌)" <willchan@chromium.org>
To: Peter Lepeska <bizzbyster@gmail.com>
Cc: "emile.stephan@orange.com" <emile.stephan@orange.com>, Michael Sweet <msweet@apple.com>, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>, Zhong Yu <zhong.j.yu@gmail.com>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e014954be535c6404e2af4688"
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmg5kY1CVKg+jd3fc37NL3HSE/morUSU0JyiCA1YnVjjeJtXCMHM+sqNogb7ZhLJJxFy+stkoi/x7GZJKoV21eVMIERcxHwOCWHXaEt1eoRyVUSyeSTvYk0pvGxRO5xYA1tmygwqarCECIfT365+KPhp/pru3pXPNnzmr+FZRwWX/KqdYcdnNPjmR2j3CsakwAmwv7L
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.214.171; envelope-from=willchan@google.com; helo=mail-ob0-f171.google.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-1.027, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.528, SPF_PASS=-0.001
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: maggie.w3.org 1V3xLU-0006sK-39 a4b3928341c927d92ddf787f8cabc449
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/CAA4WUYjMFxAznaXdgz28GjFM4z_n5s811oNT61jQ9Xndkb=7GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/18969
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>
I'm not really interested in discussing speculations about what we (Google) will do in the future. I think we've already made our stance relatively clear. On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Peter Lepeska <bizzbyster@gmail.com> wrote: > HTTP 2.0 in the clear will be faster than over TLS. It will be interesting > to see if Google will continue to trade speed for privacy when the standard > supports a faster option. > > Peter > > > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:01 PM, William Chan (陈智昌) <willchan@chromium.org > > wrote: > >> Sorry, I am inexact. Some people may have previously said otherwise, but >> currently to my knowledge no one is vocally opposing including a HTTP/2.0 >> in the clear mechanism in the spec, and the current draft spec does provide >> such a mechanism. >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:00 PM, William Chan (陈智昌) < >> willchan@chromium.org> wrote: >> >>> No one has said otherwise. Please see the section in the spec where we >>> provide a way to negotiate HTTP/2.0 in the clear via HTTP Upgrade: >>> http://http2.github.io/http2-spec/#discover-http. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 9:37 AM, <emile.stephan@orange.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi,**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> HTTP2 must work in the clear and over TLS. This is required because >>>> HTTP1.1 and HTTP2 must coexist to ease the migration to HTTP2, and to >>>> accelerate HTTP2 deployments. **** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> Regards**** >>>> >>>> Emile**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> *De :* Michael Sweet [mailto:msweet@apple.com <msweet@apple.com>] >>>> *Envoyé :* dimanche 28 juillet 2013 14:12 >>>> *À :* Eliot Lear >>>> *Cc :* William Chan (陈智昌) ; Zhong Yu; HTTP Working Group >>>> *Objet :* Re: HTTPS 2.0 without TLS extension?**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> ... and don't forgot some of the more obscure usage of HTTP, such as >>>> HTTP over USB in the USB-IF's IPP USB Specification:**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs**** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> There isn't much point in using TLS over USB (and a lot of cost issues >>>> for that class of printer against it), and we need to continue to use the >>>> same USB end points/interfaces, so upgrade remains an important feature of >>>> HTTP/2.0 for me/Apple...**** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad**** >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2013-07-28, at 12:46 AM, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> On 7/23/13 7:34 PM, William Chan (陈智昌) wrote:**** >>>> >>>> FWIW, it seems reasonable to me to have the spec allow HTTPS 2.0 >>>> without TLS extension. If you want to Upgrade, be my guest. I have no plans >>>> for my browser to support that, and I don't think Google servers will >>>> support it either, because we care strongly about the advantages of >>>> TLS-ALPN vs Upgrade.**** >>>> >>>> >>>> Not only that, I don't think we can reasonably call this HTTP 2.0 if we >>>> have no path to do it in the clear.**** >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >>>> >>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; >>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. >>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
- HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS emile.stephan
- Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS William Chan (陈智昌)
- Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS William Chan (陈智昌)
- Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS Peter Lepeska
- Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS Fred Akalin
- Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS William Chan (陈智昌)
- Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS Amos Jeffries
- Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS Peter Lepeska
- Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS Martin Thomson
- Re: HTTP 2.0 in the clear and over TLS Peter Lepeska