Re: Redirection to Other IP Addresses

Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz> Tue, 30 July 2019 07:37 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE201200A3 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 00:37:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.652
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.652 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M9gn-aeXqZfE for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 00:37:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [IPv6:2603:400a:ffff:804:801e:34:0:38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4AD71200EF for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 00:37:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1hsMer-0001Wa-Nf for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:34:53 +0000
Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:34:53 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1hsMer-0001Wa-Nf@frink.w3.org>
Received: from titan.w3.org ([2603:400a:ffff:804:801e:34:0:4c]) by frink.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <squid3@treenet.co.nz>) id 1hsMen-0001Vf-Uq for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:34:49 +0000
Received: from [116.251.193.116] (helo=treenet.co.nz) by titan.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from <squid3@treenet.co.nz>) id 1hsMem-0000DY-IF for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:34:49 +0000
Received: from [192.168.20.251] (unknown [121.98.62.26]) by treenet.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 39DD430002B for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 19:34:11 +1200 (NZST)
To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
References: <CAFifEMLOHp5=OqUXZbg_WKNQmNsTW3Bg5P4btJdX06CF=Wi2AA@mail.gmail.com> <d9b03ef6-9c8c-1eb2-7f74-014f9703475d@gmx.de> <CAJ_4DfQifbJJ7owfrgUUOqXimL-KQkb4-1f_Qp6+CMjhYC1bbg@mail.gmail.com> <CAFifEMJPZd9CGghi_MJ1Hrcq7TJNnkV6yH-EKtrrfaQmStS4Ug@mail.gmail.com> <b09ab672-f512-52bc-6c28-7df55919a846@gmx.de> <CAFifEM+TXtsxTt-NcH+hQomEAYZmMTW_kPxXvQB69eM4KgGf7g@mail.gmail.com> <d4d25ceb-09b5-72ff-6c36-7fdfc2796b15@gmx.de> <CAFifEMKff11nmJZgE1RGWT8qH6SKsO2tqWCF9vQsvF5=BMeQgg@mail.gmail.com> <45C10C32-DA87-4AE3-9082-DAAFD5D9C412@vcontractor.co.za> <CAHbrMsAE1ZezM5U_b2s3juc4OC0LJDOpyHfek7Pu2AaQcXpf8A@mail.gmail.com> <CAJU8_nWP63pT08X4QkUmk6KT_U98LjiFvNaTNg5ZtVMG3AFiFg@mail.gmail.com> <CAFifEMLnSB5SYb_q0toTE3Xy1i56=14ki=__91Phc76HHL+ZhQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Amos Jeffries <squid3@treenet.co.nz>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=squid3@treenet.co.nz; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFiOEzoBEADuuawHiMOqHBjL5Mk6IfPCgJmY3oqJDmykzve+vDh7jArtFnOG067ftaML ligGh3y6LOLh3r1kIZ254CPHuKFYssA1p9mXL9YJnZ1qHrQVhqZwDq7dH/UtBQ2IM1QukoTo 1VRTB3ppiPHKTSa2zZ/kgBs0d+1MOi8DY2SmIDYVhUJI55qSqpxlcs6MyG4KxlEPD35J3nL4 hIzLzuzIbZoUO6M+dLvnqiFu2+mm6o75nxYmq+JCPwN5biETkSvndqr56t/W0ajlU1MpFXfO YJ8PfutrIBUPsRJUqWQjGg6uXp4torC1q2XasfSKVIQ+8duw7MCrkAfRv5BtDtpesAAsScvY TwUaDYVioiNNK1uJQZlrpYY4I0EbHI4GHKq7Q4VmotcQ2BhigqRIdh7kD3corddhlLTvTs0G 5Pjk/T2ZoMFZI03g+ieuo1l8VhCGdlqSQd8d1Np9WWwS9899QSgucwEeG+OK2f1IxxD12HiC gNoSh9id9vTYLTZK+HM1FEu+iwTxfQ9F/kDN49IaPhfvjJTs86Ov4FBTtaNUN2pF0qXpQr3A RisxZt7t7MVls+570sNnaijYYkLZdZj+49QArJxallltX3sbc9AK5JxkT8XivRCeLTKOngZE zIZCBeZuyI8cCemhU0csl89ZcORbMsgFS28FyWH4+X6lA+R5HQARAQABtCJBbW9zIEplZmZy aWVzIDxhbW9zQHRyZWVuZXQuY28ubno+iQJOBBMBCAA4FiEEAimzwkzOwlQSfJUyANhjZ5Qg vdMFAliOEzoCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQANhjZ5QgvdOKkhAAseag 7QTzRF20TDwc6QQpfYdUyuuMqyEV3AwATtJxF2Y+aF/hEHXU9XBCM8EMyiJR816haC+86Wci 0cXYj7pmR80psR9C6JoaNos89CrgsmMx9tZR5yJXrdTCnQajbZf3ozs7IDk41g4NvWg5GtHM 3MYriL0LUBXLT+YSZ9Qq2DmRZRatCjk6tiMYeHG/GtH6GZs3YExRO9Am16C1gTJRao9mJtCB DR+0NrRB2E7tKN8EZySAsZkDzbL+hL/LpdWkEZvlBsSxJebAN0x64w3FSztHGfZwLfLsxdva 6CfYs8kalHoTxRoRhpIKmTtGFJI4v9cR0+Ua5trMPgHG2QIOgXOKtOTgdYF5ksA98ZF+Odsu W7yCe9POqc4bnDbOXByxVuNMPwVSESk/GJwnxRB2vW4nywQKREJ2H6HeDO+KVhLE9nH5Alsp XpEgPpzYVeplhcKKi6H56bI0anIHvao7vEEXNP2pwRWSoMKEwGWGG7QvmemQ0YbsUqJSK563 SwNe5cVUg/Cqb08m7D9ybAm+hwgtvzU7OGsLyIHuyVxnGkB5A1GV1lizUmsFauBxyw8Yx6Gm wfmsiwEVYV/lidg+ubnsxqN7Kuvg9gYRvv+Yg1wl1QFRgeOFjbU8hj/AaNAP9SppHcA5joBe kakQx18Y6LIKKvdoepDg3mFXrOouo8i5Ag0EWI4TOgEQAMmEISQmHDde0q2YfyeA8MKejHlt 5vCldKYwtaN5ii077vJaNrQk9Q8Iym6ro0plAdtLDTzyQCATWUctF6B0VowB4/LqF40U4g+u NAj7fzC/mVvSIG42diN0pJYkcfd9ghVcF7H5CeYe2zL3TlqilqQA6Xmt6i7NmYUMO939jw7V ZszMHlqvDTUzcimKrTVB7oS3+r5v1GGT3q+utrxka3WoQ3IHnidsylbTfF+dlRsvtKWxtg8k mTgu/oj1CmUE0DQh67kXsiC3nhjdUh+eZfDGmLuOGgVAWU/WNCS3oaVxVXW3rX/nUc+URkiO CuxyPjBy+A8Z+I8OXpIaC6FQY9sCFVo7yK4UxsK+eM93mWGIc5cGBL99vr+7YgZ3TBjYrazL O5Z8wyw765G1U3dPZB+egRMEY5CO64eb78f7vbRl8/INZWdkJxcotR4weGnvOxxDHyncS3BT Su6iiqmXSz0ZDpaOdCMNDHE6Kmt1qw2NbuGUHohqg2K8+1mWnXwevS0afydoG7EX0AuE1YEf kODsek8ceFj4U2c1jlOQbuO01pHa6Z9VYn5NOwXETlIytjDyBt15R7Tt1BQQg7wU482a5SSl wXYyzOx42a2CLvZM2tXnbIY4VZDu+V1ywXNMGOs8Am1LJzi74eEv2NTbvdFMmsGAkWNWn6KS 77eR+pe5ABEBAAGJAjYEGAEIACAWIQQCKbPCTM7CVBJ8lTIA2GNnlCC90wUCWI4TOgIbDAAK CRAA2GNnlCC90zeSD/9qEpJAtuEAXyCCymUEpzN6XgSWdcYra+NolIGCRzWd3SnxtBi+zWwh LFxm8AEhfqSMRh95T4XWKHScIsZZuG9xiap5whJ5xLJC/NlZidQqiPSJLog2+Yqt+PBVPrMp aG7Cmq64Y4ttvFwLZ8Wn23irJzr9JiWvsjprImsCZbuG/I1JWHUIn70oknzsTgpTPWDCfnCi GhCK7vgXak9QgBKhrzgADK3o6uCjmNllUdci9gFzUSy4/x9x73xrbzXS8/pO23fnbBwPa7VV 9IRtOb8HJJk8Y79A1ZnkVANBo1KmE+Ycw92IMcz2ev4VFw+pbqZ/swHqa3y3L5cT7Keqgc67 wiahSZRc5zM0jJWxN//lpgcdnDRI1OSLCrMMI69yc2QMzUZu87BtEJzm0DBy2pIKEni9dSCw wMITUsU21Ny3RmaV7fmXYAyp9pcaQQWGOb2CIvU7k60eLWgfNTo5SGI56WYC+ndod7vPU+sw JVbKrQKqfwO5JbdY9YPbo++Z6kfrnbkmm3wkJ4W8dOcrkLYbmOk7sColcQhVbmGy74Ggzl75 R22Q7+Uhjj9iq0Kv3CGQ3rKVdXOfAo5OekdaMDx9t9HoirGiokcyCPTy7wAyvQ75lbrygxCm e05XBfLZHrMp+SdM8ONsdgIe7U0bI85zYegceSagzCtBdB8HQ10TFg==
Message-ID: <f05b5157-f068-1e03-8422-36d0425a32a5@treenet.co.nz>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 19:34:04 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAFifEMLnSB5SYb_q0toTE3Xy1i56=14ki=__91Phc76HHL+ZhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.251.193.116; envelope-from=squid3@treenet.co.nz; helo=treenet.co.nz
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.6
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=-0.445, BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_IRA=-1, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: titan.w3.org 1hsMem-0000DY-IF 941697d2296e8f3213173ccf5f5686fa
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Redirection to Other IP Addresses
Archived-At: <https://www.w3.org/mid/f05b5157-f068-1e03-8422-36d0425a32a5@treenet.co.nz>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/36874
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <https://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On 30/07/19 7:02 am, Bin Ni wrote:
> Yes, what we want is a way to force a "deterministic behavior from the
> client", just like all the 30X redirections today.
> 
> Let me give a few more cases in which this can be helpful:
> 1. A client in North America is returned a server IP in Europe by the
> DNS. The server then wants to direct the client to another server in
> North America for better performance.
> 2. The content of a website is hashed to multiple servers based on URL.
> These multiple servers may not even be in the same datacenter. The DNS
> does not have this information and may return any IP to any query of the
> website's hostname.  Each server will calculate the hash for each
> request and redirect client to the correct server that has the content.
> This is quite common for CDN.

It is common for good reason: efficiency.

There is a secondary level of efficiency that comes from the redirects
being actual HTTP 30x redirects. Having large objects at different URL
entirely provides for a different CDN or caching layer closer to the
client to provide the large object contents. DNS can be (often is)
involved in that layer to provide the closest server IP.

As proposed so far your mechanism would flatten this two-tier structure.
Forcing the frontend layer (now only layer) to be involved in deciding
the specific hardware location of individual objects / resources.
 Making the frontend machinery store more information and do more work
per-request is not going to make the system faster, quite the opposite.


By separating the work into the three layers: frontend LB, cache, and
origin. Each CDN layer gets some orders of magnitude increase in
performance / capacity:
 - origin able to handle/generate some few thousand responses per second,
 - cache able to re-distribute those as static objects at line speed for
an order or two magnitude more than origins,
 - frontend LB able to handle millions of the small ~1KB
request/response pairs for redirection spreading that high load across
the lower layers.


AYJ