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To: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
From: "Eliot Lear (elear)" <elear@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <9C939474-975C-4D12-8B78-E2A74264A9BD@mnot.net>
Resent-From: Yves Lafon <ylafon@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 11:54:35 +0000
Cc: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>,
 Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
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Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:26:28 +0200
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References: <9C939474-975C-4D12-8B78-E2A74264A9BD@mnot.net>
Resent-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Adjustments to our work mode - please read
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/69B99EF5-364E-4BBA-A6AB-49543366EEE3@cisco.com>
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Mark,

On the whole I believe this is a reasonable experiment.

First, you are a chair and not a king. You should have proposed this to =
the group before acting.  Do other chairs get to pick and choose their =
rules? =20

Had you consulted the group first, someone might have asked the question =
about how those coming into the group anew would understand the process. =
Others might have asked about whether GitHub is sufficient for archival =
purposes.  Others might have asked how easy it would be to manage two =
parallel discussions on the same issue.

Anyway, what I ask at this point is four things:

1.  The charter of the group should indicate the procedures being used.=20=


2. Those procedures should be documented in a draft.

3.  Before you close an issue in GitHub, you should give fair warning on =
*this* list with a pointer.

4.   Finally, you have repeatedly and needlessly used derogatory =
language toward those who have worked hard for *this* organization. I =
think you owe that group an apology.=20

Eliot

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:53 PM, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote:
>=20
> Everyone,
>=20
> A number of folks have commented over the years about how it can be =
difficult to follow this mailing list. This is especially the case for =
HTTP implementers who don't have the time to focus on such a high-volume =
channel.
>=20
> I've been concerned about this for some time, since it can be seen as =
biasing participation towards "professional" standards people, and away =
from implementers and users. So, to see if we can improve matters for =
those folks without significantly disadvantaging current participants, =
I've been talking to our Area Director about experimenting with the =
group's working mode.=20
>=20
> To that end, we're going to try allowing discussion and resolution of =
issues in the issue tracker itself, rather than requiring discussion =
there to be moved here -- thereby allowing people to participate without =
subscribing to the mailing list, if they don't want to.=20
>=20
> For details, see:
> https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
>=20
> This takes effect immediately for our current deliverables, whose =
issue list is here:
> https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues
>=20
> If you want to track conversations there and have a Github account, =
you can click "watch" at the top of the patch to be notified of new =
comments, etc.
>=20
> To make sure that those who don't wish to use the issue tracker aren't =
disadvantaged, we'll do a number of things, including:
>=20
> - Summarise (with links) the design issues closed by each draft when =
it is announced on this list
> - Allow issues to be re-opened when someone brings substantive new =
information (as always)
> - Allow those who do not wish to use the issues list to comment on =
this mailing list
> - Provide a separate, announce-only mailing list that is subscribed to =
every issue change, for those who do not want to use a github account to =
receive notifications. See: =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/http-issues>
>=20
> We'll review this approach on a continuing basis to make sure it's =
working.
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> --
> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
>=20
>=20