Re: Issue 271 of 5987bis - Proposed Standard or Internet Standard?

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Mon, 16 January 2017 01:32 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC69F128824 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:32:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.12
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lDKgeXZTDArY for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:32:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C65C127058 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:32:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1cSw7T-0004MJ-Ne for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:29:59 +0000
Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:29:59 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1cSw7T-0004MJ-Ne@frink.w3.org>
Received: from titan.w3.org ([128.30.52.76]) by frink.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1cSw7Q-0004LY-CK for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:29:56 +0000
Received: from mxout-07.mxes.net ([216.86.168.182]) by titan.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1cSw7J-0003fr-SD for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:29:51 +0000
Received: from [192.168.3.104] (unknown [124.189.98.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DA08122E1FA; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:29:26 -0500 (EST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\))
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
In-Reply-To: <CAOdDvNr==BmizwUPKaMZq__UckfM5bAJ0w15=A-R1xrtZ+JxjA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:29:23 +1100
Cc: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <F1215D6F-1E83-48D2-B1D7-1E86775A20FD@mnot.net>
References: <CAOdDvNr==BmizwUPKaMZq__UckfM5bAJ0w15=A-R1xrtZ+JxjA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259)
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=216.86.168.182; envelope-from=mnot@mnot.net; helo=mxout-07.mxes.net
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.9
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: AWL=1.744, BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_DB=-1, W3C_IRA=-1, W3C_IRR=-3, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: titan.w3.org 1cSw7J-0003fr-SD 2ec990755c11da4384647cdcba3e52bf
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Issue 271 of 5987bis - Proposed Standard or Internet Standard?
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/F1215D6F-1E83-48D2-B1D7-1E86775A20FD@mnot.net>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/33286
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Personal hat -

I'd prefer Proposed Standard; I don't think we want to overly promote the use of this encoding in new header fields, so calling it an Internet Standard sends the wrong message. 

In particular, if we do come up with a better solution, there will be that awkward phase (perhaps years) when this one will be full standard, and the "better" one will be only Proposed.

Finally, I don't think it meets the criteria in 2026.

I'm not lie-down-in-the-road against this (they're just words, after all); just a preference.

Cheers,


> On 13 Jan 2017, at 9:10 am, Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com> wrote:
> 
> Gentlefolk of the HTTPbis WG -
> 
> I need to direct your attention to one of just two open issues with the 5987bis document (Indicating Character Encoding and Language for HTTP Header Field Parameters), which deals with the intended status of the eventual RFC. The consensus of the WG is sought.
> 
> https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/issues/271
> The intended status of this document is currently listed as "Internet Standard" ( https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-httpbis-rfc5987bis/ )
> 
> The other practical status for standards track documents is proposed standard  - its laid out here https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2026.txt and also in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6410.txt
> 
> The basic guidance is:
> 
>       An Internet Standard is characterized by a high degree of
>       technical maturity and by a generally held belief that the
>       specified protocol or service provides significant benefit to the
>       Internet community.
> 
> A list of the ~100 active documents currently bearing STD status can be found here https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards#IS
> I apologize to Julian for not starting this thread earlier, I procrastinated long enough that we got into the holiday season and then I decided to defer until everyone's attention returned to work.
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> -Patrick, chair-hat on

--
Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/