Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictionary Transport
Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Thu, 13 June 2024 05:16 UTC
Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=ietf.org@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C295C14F701 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 22:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.858
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.858 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=w3.org header.b="lh6H2eRX"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=w3.org header.b="PHOJwLKW"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b="GXdJJzfx"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="WdvfkAL1"
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ox6IZXHUyz-2 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 22:16:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mab.w3.org (mab.w3.org [IPv6:2600:1f18:7d7a:2700:d091:4b25:8566:8113]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7B34C15107C for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietf.org>; Wed, 12 Jun 2024 22:16:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=w3.org; s=s1; h=Subject:Content-Type:Cc:To:From:Date:References:In-Reply-To: Message-Id:MIME-Version:Reply-To; bh=MCI3I9Jjgzuk4NPd1Cugd9e+jlKDIZ9WaT6zoonb/y8=; b=lh6H2eRXaygUU7jD14BF76rZj3 pqmPjVfd4aE4wVz7jwe0gkHpo3RJfbDo6h7hiJaBA6GeuxwTYVLhT46CvjNHgRksMmLrg4FF6Pto2 pxczu2QpzjtHGsuM0TO0fE5m4+9ieC9erfWKY6/stDBKGWSgvKHDa+5Ab94YzVdpYAbAnU3yB5I/b ojP/wN2Zt438DWDqb4xacXKD09HhJmIj5NWPrqtqCmF/hAJ23Qh5fS/k0US3KqYcVumEtarwjE8JJ zI35tyXQEtXdESUGayyNDMdOjtabIcAO5Kpm3e4OGKsWQTFYk3J0WpRE08oP+WEH2GKKNkqGMRpf8 gD7wDA1A==;
Received: from lists by mab.w3.org with local (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1sHcoh-001HvY-1C for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 05:16:07 +0000
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 05:16:07 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1sHcoh-001HvY-1C@mab.w3.org>
Received: from ip-10-0-0-144.ec2.internal ([10.0.0.144] helo=pan.w3.org) by mab.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <mt@lowentropy.net>) id 1sHcof-001HuY-0s for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.internal; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 05:16:05 +0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=w3.org; s=s1; h=Content-Type:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:References:In-Reply-To: Message-Id:MIME-Version:Reply-To; bh=MCI3I9Jjgzuk4NPd1Cugd9e+jlKDIZ9WaT6zoonb/y8=; t=1718255765; x=1719119765; b=PHOJwLKWZn7p2FMCy7RoYPYcf2QWzcy+Op7b85ykoZLLz1HIX99pc7FemEbbsfrebjtCmuwBkqC dvxY0GbB7+U1WPek3H47mpxwfndb0uUYvU0OpCTZ1RO8IF0HqiOnRLEbdy+3ALs2YarGAKXmGe0+5 YaHD2QacLcVCWlMwkK83+Z+iUCL5cuNJAGqJ3mlL0vYI/jdpI6gNKTwLfnDQZY7RLtD5gUW6a6cMn 4POlq0WQIkLW+oLpNad+BtVAMLMmMjU2ILrBz0ZMSaH5iOuZTHJwPXxWnfGDzbA8+AP1KDpLHVjfF NC7Dlb90tnF28AI66S262fVQRZ/0wMWfqKZA==;
Received-SPF: pass (pan.w3.org: domain of lowentropy.net designates 103.168.172.144 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.144; envelope-from=mt@lowentropy.net; helo=fout1-smtp.messagingengine.com;
Received: from fout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([103.168.172.144]) by pan.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <mt@lowentropy.net>) id 1sHcob-00ETHW-2H for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 05:16:05 +0000
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailfout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583C41380246; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 01:15:58 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imap41 ([10.202.2.91]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 13 Jun 2024 01:15:58 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1718255758; x= 1718342158; bh=MCI3I9Jjgzuk4NPd1Cugd9e+jlKDIZ9WaT6zoonb/y8=; b=G XdJJzfxl4TCclQMZPvruNV2tzVwFEWb1evqUGd1LI4pY/nIwkImaZpvIDjKYU3T5 g3ERA4p5nscxcn/7bfGFgQDl0UsLB2YT9EVV8dDGrXJU1xy2pFIw7UpXktG66GlX WU6ChUZ8LG1sZRP5a+mbmC5QIPaXag0znnW5oBqPUTV7pZgTxx0MerW0JEfXnwNT JTQ8+ptXwKQsCIxiRcKbgpbLKNnWyx4Tpg91av+wEFkLzaW1774fuKDFIEP0jxYO /dFu9TEzTzNzighIAsfw67/94mUuJyo3kHuJTf6UqpIB0/bUEgZyZLmictXx+sq0 vsql1VqvyT50Ga7Amf7TQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; t=1718255758; x=1718342158; bh=MCI3I9Jjgzuk4NPd1Cugd9e+jlKD IZ9WaT6zoonb/y8=; b=WdvfkAL1mq9ylr7V+59RWVCChSXcUYkFPU5C71tZCl8B r49XvPbsBsr3xU0bTPQSF6FkLRZIzYEmpjfMH61KJn98g3uCUa42m0GmZM8JqvaI xYZdj+lS/M49sknJBmFUVmKY9KIT4Cc4zMtDy/RUfR6YpPIJRDOkP8whyoFdDWSl 9zv9xw6BBJNc0IVyBhnClmncSHQaVjGD7y6/eAOudqsLzacjLzumvIJLUi2/Ot/U 0GsKVmD2m9Fk8zT9EPelBjQm4HXpi0HKlmjJCVZbuZqGoHrZ9QajFg8MHbqxlZ/c q7xy4rPfwmlmboaEDP/v+VG+vSkJNtBxclqRH2aolg==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:jYBqZh4zPSiy221uh8l8i3D90flQDXKrbe2obFgCy1Hxx3L7St0hUQ> <xme:jYBqZu7TmYlnYurqZiykCRvVVIlwZhKa7FA9tBhG7yKA-x7BMhD7OGbMbLYv4gxOb any6DkVZSPsgJDIeOo>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrfeduiedgieejucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvfevufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgr rhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenuc ggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeduleeufedthfegieeiieekkeejvdejgfevudffgeefvdffleev feekudeiieekleenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfh hrohhmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvght
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:joBqZodor4WC0ZHkbPZmp5hUFUyS8kH9gJIEL8dpmEriIwnFx4cVEw> <xmx:joBqZqI38DYU16xZPiJMtE24QSQ0KVWFw7YnjGzs0XQNho9vOm7g5w> <xmx:joBqZlIA3zfVx9COqVKfvThgO2m7--8WNt4oqFN5D2kfmBR-p-HEoQ> <xmx:joBqZjxruwwwvVJYzQXx-m8XomXwluZxAfzsv7WcDSiNNyIWCunsoQ> <xmx:joBqZjjVRQu6GYtvqJo1zryDIXEx3kKoYevE1DV67BtKJfzghduuoYMi>
Feedback-ID: ic129442d:Fastmail
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id E2BA82340080; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 01:15:57 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-515-g87b2bad5a-fm-20240604.001-g87b2bad5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <a328fabb-7f36-4fd1-905f-6308adfcf7a9@betaapp.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALYmMaebQOuDZHYgvCm799AbLPQfj+fxNQTsj_bKCMJU-076BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6871AEAA-DC4D-408D-915A-22BF9627B5FC@mnot.net> <aabfd879-2a0a-488e-9ee1-4f49eaf6c2a6@betaapp.fastmail.com> <CALYmMaebQOuDZHYgvCm799AbLPQfj+fxNQTsj_bKCMJU-076BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 15:15:37 +1000
From: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: Yoav Weiss <yoav.weiss@shopify.com>
Cc: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Content-Type: text/plain
X-W3C-Hub-DKIM-Status: validation passed: (address=mt@lowentropy.net domain=lowentropy.net), signature is good
X-W3C-Hub-DKIM-Status: validation passed: (address=mt@lowentropy.net domain=messagingengine.com), signature is good
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.1
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, DMARC_PASS=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_DB=-1, W3C_IRA=-1, W3C_IRR=-3, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: pan.w3.org 1sHcob-00ETHW-2H 70070f4b1cbf60443222e64aa1ba203d
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictionary Transport
Archived-At: <https://www.w3.org/mid/a328fabb-7f36-4fd1-905f-6308adfcf7a9@betaapp.fastmail.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/52007
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <https://www.w3.org/email/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024, at 14:16, Yoav Weiss wrote: > Can you expand on that uncertainty? I don't think I get your concern. It might be nothing, but we haven't had enough time to implement and find out. Consider that you have a bunch of resources in cache for a site/origin/whatever. Some of them have Use-As-Dictionary attached. When you fetch, the dumb implementation strategy here is to iterate your entire cache to find applicable Use-As-Dictionary matches, which requires a bunch of URL pattern tests. That will be inefficient. Now, obviously, that inefficiency isn't what you would ship, but we haven't done the work to find an implementation strategy. Given that we essentially only have one implementation of this right now in Chrome, it's not clear that their strategy will translate to other implementations (those in CDNs as well as browsers). We've been burned by this sort of performance optimization feature in the past. Claims did not bear out when deployed more widely. I've learned to be very skeptical of claims coming from a single implementation. All of which is to say, I think this needs time as an experiment.
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Mark Nottingham
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Yoav Weiss
- Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictionary T… Mark Nottingham
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Martin Thomson
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Martin Thomson
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Yoav Weiss
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Martin Thomson
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Patrick Meenan
- RE: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Mike Bishop
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… W. Felix Handte
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Watson Ladd
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Patrick Meenan
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Patrick Meenan
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Patrick Meenan
- Re: Working Group Last Call: Compression Dictiona… Yoav Weiss