Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over Byte-Stream Oriented Wire Protocols (HTTP)
Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com> Tue, 25 April 2017 07:33 UTC
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From: Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:28:52 +0900
Message-ID: <CAH9hSJZOUBRJo9UnA0hO5_oMzKdUjgHA7+vtwDDyf9tN6U6P-w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
Cc: Van Catha <vans554@gmail.com>, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>, Andy Green <andy@warmcat.com>, "ietf-http-wg@w3.org Group" <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, Wenbo Zhu <wenboz@google.com>, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over Byte-Stream Oriented Wire Protocols (HTTP)
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Finally, I started a thread at HyBi as Mark and Patrick suggested. Please join it. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hybi/6-CXa2Ab1qC5fNnc8r6yYNrpKPE Takeshi On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com> wrote: > Thank you everyone for all the feedback. > > I'd like to start some thread soon at HyBi to get more feedback to WiSH > from WebSocket users, and also figure out how to standardize it in > parallel. I've also shared the idea briefly with annevk at WHATWG and going > to start some discussion there, too. > > Again, thank you. > > Takeshi > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Alexey Melnikov < > alexey.melnikov@isode.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On 27 Nov 2016, at 14:36, Van Catha <vans554@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> So can we form a new WG then and focus on doing this right vs making >> WebSocket2. The focus earlier was to get the already coded clients and API >> (websocket API) to be able to work with websockets layered on HTTP2/QUIC, >> if we are in it for the long haul now we might as well form a new group and >> create something more long term? >> >> Long haul meaning maybe making websockets its own protocol, detaching >> from HTTP2, having its own ALPN, etc. >> >> >> Interested parties should email art-ads@ietf.org and start the >> chartering discussion. Your friendly area directors will help you with the >> process. >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 1:53 AM, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> > On 25 Nov. 2016, at 7:25 pm, Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Thanks all. >>> > >>> > IESG and IETF don't have unlimited resource. Conclusion of HyBi did >>> make sense. >>> > >>> > As noted by Barry in his mail about WG conclusion and as Mark said, we >>> can form a supervision again once there's enough interest. >>> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hybi/vreF1jd3I-vsyWN1TiRnFSCEoVI >>> > >>> > > What *is* in-scope here is how (if at all) that protocol interacts >>> with HTTP, including HTTP/2; there are several ways you could implement >>> WebSockets over HTTP/2, and a few pitfalls in doing so that the people on >>> this list will be able to give you feedback on. >>> > >>> > One of the keys of the WiSH proposal is to focus on API level >>> compatibility with WebSocket. But except for that point, it's a general >>> proposal of application of HTTP semantics and HTTP/2's power for >>> full-duplex messaging in the Web. The proposal (one done by Yutaka in 2014 >>> and Van's one also) heavily depends on what the HTTP WG produces (specs, >>> documents and possibly any kind of official/unofficial communications). So, >>> I think there shouldn't be no doubt on need for close work with HTTP WG. >>> > >>> > That said, I agree we need to have the right structure of the >>> community to have the "best" work mode based on various metrics (level of >>> interest for each proposal, their complexity, scope, etc.), and the IESG >>> and the co-chairs are trying to do the best in making the right decision, I >>> think. >>> > >>> > > However, it's hard to do that before there's agreement in the WS >>> community about what the requirements are. Ideally, that community would >>> bring a single proposal that has broad support here for review. >>> > >>> > Mark, does this post of yours imply that you're seeing HyBi ML as one >>> effective representative of WS community at this point with HTTP WG chair >>> hat on? >>> >>> I'm seeing it as the obvious place to hold the discussion; it doesn't >>> have any official status (beyond being the place where hybi happened >>> before), but it's typical practice to keep IETF mailing lists open after a >>> WG concludes, so that the interested parts of the community have a forum. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ >>> >>> >> >
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over Byte… Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Loïc Hoguin
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Van Catha
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Loïc Hoguin
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Loïc Hoguin
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Wenbo Zhu
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Wenbo Zhu
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Loïc Hoguin
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Costin Manolache
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Wenbo Zhu
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Costin Manolache
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Costin Manolache
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Loïc Hoguin
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Wenbo Zhu
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Van Catha
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Costin Manolache
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Costin Manolache
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Wenbo Zhu
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Costin Manolache
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Van Catha
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Van Catha
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Mark Nottingham
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Andy Green
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Mark Nottingham
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Andy Green
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Mark Nottingham
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Willy Tarreau
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Mark Nottingham
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Van Catha
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Poul-Henning Kamp
- RE: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Mike Bishop
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Van Catha
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Andy Green
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Van Catha
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Andy Green
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Martin J. Dürst
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Alexey Melnikov
- Re: WiSH: A General Purpose Message Framing over … Takeshi Yoshino