Re: GET / DELETE request bodies

Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> Mon, 17 February 2020 13:04 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20FC01200FB for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 05:04:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.651
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, MAILING_LIST_MULTI=-1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d1vDN-3YKMfd for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 05:04:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lyra.w3.org (lyra.w3.org [128.30.52.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B00C1200B9 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 05:04:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lists by lyra.w3.org with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1j3g0A-00036L-J6 for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:59:54 +0000
Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:59:54 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1j3g0A-00036L-J6@lyra.w3.org>
Received: from titan.w3.org ([128.30.52.76]) by lyra.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <julian.reschke@gmx.de>) id 1j3g05-00035G-Pp for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:59:49 +0000
Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]) by titan.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <julian.reschke@gmx.de>) id 1j3g03-0002ng-OP for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:59:49 +0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1581944374; bh=tLdDojcKuDEdiqXrjmdV/lO8KJkXvPMVT+9/d0gtIiM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=kM+Mbb2aSSINIru0OQ28ilXsiU8wMq8zjXWZnJrsl6XjRfsKCSQAqPclq3uiIl2C+ AWLvI4PNQSEWcp3Xh7Spco+Ape123PLOSjLk1momWIfnnQiuMWJVIDi7WqEUqBRvmU +U2C1CQRmHnbSJrPFQ752XJxvdjMd9CNDHxVENhc=
X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c
Received: from [192.168.1.220] ([5.10.171.186]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MbivG-1jb4XY0riI-00dBps; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 13:59:34 +0100
To: Cory Benfield <cory@lukasa.co.uk>, Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Cc: "ietf-http-wg@w3.org Group" <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
References: <CAChr6SyZN4ceSeHkfQVnKRX7=RPnKjX_vAsL1mTHs18-MKRphQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAH_hAJEdM+NeVKAwEC+8uQf_0Dv-ArEtetuSoOW3wcV9WMeMZw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <a66c0dcd-aa1d-a28c-8a25-1ada3bb8856d@gmx.de>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 13:59:34 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAH_hAJEdM+NeVKAwEC+8uQf_0Dv-ArEtetuSoOW3wcV9WMeMZw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:LyDmqJLZSs8lL+ZszaVDImlvNNsLBlt4qb9TskX/F4xCyLQ+jx8 JeKv1JRdRWJ4+kmdRg1R7AM6U8WFPT7JIRnpBk0XQPGxxEwzwMQe1VZOzyntOaQBlruAMKh 2v6jD3Y3LbCO2k8sIG7UhPHjMz7DcvhSDkG6yFlaVFyVa4Bj28xOkAVyggQnlOCTZeE2ckd /atySNehC6SBDHfmD90dQ==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:8xMTqjrYBnw=:EgdzkkU/qPl4ZlbW8iVMBy YkJUR6MmclhSoe3Pl35FNdXraRGdGciyUf43wH4cfgYGBb5vY866W8/N9vvH+maD67uC0QdZc +fj2KdbxZ11I45ftFaeNu3omFL/lV9gq5IJPXkpD7gBU+6JhkMS3hiPpnpfrIIt6lqJAsSmED eEdgt9/L25V45JrqNYXkS6jO4f7V2f1eKxDkCXZ7iGY0qRk4ba7zg9uFy99BrQbyXbC9TA+Q0 mCI+1E1JbM/Xx0ZktUFbZrNc+cJWH6ZjoeMSlC84B2AaCsgcHy8GPwbvBW9x/p52YFMGZlEHh PeycNMlJEmmyJis9u2AHbfS0ZF7jIhiP61wrOxi08IjT0+73rHD40xiysRF+FD/4DnuqvdxaU HS0HCRGC7Y0l/EkKZv8DccRw3/fFrIOvJBFm6YgqwqfDSyxU9KLiO6vkOK3uiMJZDZ3Aml00y /okctBvImNvnZOwlWToJcyzhBya7WG+I4Cjt2zxfEY9KFQt1ROFJ///yV2KerAjlihDsfLzAt vCzSqF/FsWbKTuJOtUW8C+lGUK0IAR/qU103lTKrnNqRuiX3bgfV9FOnp2CmBvts3gRPEtgtq oZAVHApfjEDZ4c5sP6+ZTOfU9VumRav1jXwBHkFLL6CCTeKAG3W64XQCodQl1IntI7cvMZM6S bJ84aE3UPEmof5ubUTgd1/KIZ2pYVt/plW5+MpUXbrgeiGz2mwQPpcrgI7BdSp6OQ/j22YlhJ rjjFfaltVv50oxmC7wB92pxejTISOZuWK3wsOY1t/IUV0NyIicfZ1fMnfnbxVik4sYvCkiFeu oY2x+QGD39N0hKGoNRuZ8dFXjO67sSV7BdZn/jOZ2K2ivaJfZ7rEFZmkLnsJ2S8CyFKd2uZSn bRXq1JBz/hE4w8eD9xgBz3GL01RmeI4Z7RWHd2ccONyHXpcaP/QAA2P37sVFWPiQdkfLV85Rp GRv78hVMgVXuD/tCyqmdn3yNo2QEV+0eG7HpstJutyj4nWdaMOWjVCuz7hUJLXUb96pU13WQS XgJVHU07JrW5xADsac45318NVLrLOLFqdeNFcQGLt6hNq0wpNpVyGO9cnbFb63ihW4nxHcGUD a0IAOfcxUpLwTFgdRq0LbRS9o6YIqXLbZzoeRY4Eu0T1NM7U9KZnkot7/6uyVN4mZx4JK6skw qYdSdQU4PCL6VfRV78/HKa8PIF6Onxpgkan3WO4uAHJHvky6c29C24xRRGz4PxglJ/TbEsQNY qksJbLSguKywe+srm
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.20; envelope-from=julian.reschke@gmx.de; helo=mout.gmx.net
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.6
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_IRA=-1, W3C_IRR=-3, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: titan.w3.org 1j3g03-0002ng-OP 88277167b77a1627f0214656a2f15143
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: GET / DELETE request bodies
Archived-At: <https://www.w3.org/mid/a66c0dcd-aa1d-a28c-8a25-1ada3bb8856d@gmx.de>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/37357
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <https://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On 17.02.2020 10:53, Cory Benfield wrote:
> The semantic requirement missing is that DELETE bodies have no
> spec-defined semantics. This is not that they can't have semantics, or
> that they shouldn't have spec-defined semantics, only that no
> specification has ever said what a body in a DELETE request means.
> They never have. The result of this is that DELETES with bodies aren't
> interoperable: while they may work with a specific service, that
> service has defined a special-case for itself. Arbitrary
> implementations are free to ignore DELETE requests with bodies, or
> reject them, or do anything else they like with them.
>
> The relevant section of the HTTP specification that discusses what it
> means for a message body to have semantics is RFC 7231 ยง 3.3 (Payload
> Semantics) (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-3.3).
> ...

I personally find that line of argument incredibly weak.

1.) What about OPTIONS then? I don't see a significant difference
between the warnings that we have for OPTIONS ("not defined here but may
be in the future") and DELETE ("has no defined semantics so might be
rejected") - in particular as the latter statement was a change from 2616...

2) We *claim* that DELETE with request body is not interoperable; but do
we actually have proof of that? What problem are we solving by making
this change?

Best regards, Julian