Re: ID for Immutable

Ben Maurer <ben.maurer@gmail.com> Thu, 27 October 2016 00:13 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request+bounce-httpbisa-archive-bis2juki=lists.ie@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE9D1129645 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 17:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.451
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KVfgdvZHX4pM for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 17:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CF3F12956F for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 17:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1bzYG3-0004by-OW for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 00:09:23 +0000
Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 00:09:23 +0000
Resent-Message-Id: <E1bzYG3-0004by-OW@frink.w3.org>
Received: from titan.w3.org ([128.30.52.76]) by frink.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <ben.maurer@gmail.com>) id 1bzYFt-0004a6-Ho for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 00:09:13 +0000
Received: from mail-oi0-f43.google.com ([209.85.218.43]) by titan.w3.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ben.maurer@gmail.com>) id 1bzYFn-0005bA-BT for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 00:09:08 +0000
Received: by mail-oi0-f43.google.com with SMTP id n202so12596328oig.3 for <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 17:08:47 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7j3Ppk5q+tn2pIjxrOaJo5bIOr0HZ+5PW+8JenGJQeg=; b=Uu9ZDrz8B5fEWnURpsAnRWSJN8CpXPGO2dzjTQoJCG9z3TazfTMwCbiOpljrE+OvJf yohwUqcn5lk8jGyMCyyWP1Xa/2iiF+BzCLaqCjxrx0VRYev4g05x28SVE/XVZws9d72W UZv4WfTzRJ8BoLuREVc6UVb36bsOAj8ZpKyIGPqpWSE0j6l3wu9XKKTjqarjanE3JRHa FvJYaSVI2+K6zyDT1DiULBbLVl4nUDV2QW583W9FtUVLL2QqvP8GaxjiBNKRGDrB/8NN F3w5DVGBgKJf9eV44A3TAEbTkl6bfhoIAvlqx0DD2It9I6PQNoyI7FpfxgzfzWdHRVtQ oVDQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7j3Ppk5q+tn2pIjxrOaJo5bIOr0HZ+5PW+8JenGJQeg=; b=U5Pb6fSDGWBgIDSyKlNrxAmk+DJburoZbBGlNd8r01OlVUyIAHx9rXIQKEYlCvuGio lB+BgVineAe+aOm1MrsEQml6sRq8Tx2KeFGLaACiqVVudKUdKxkspZm9BSn5z6tcudnm 2PcDY5ZW82xbLeLduqBgFUYIEGOHYsCGqsIuG+OOLQXHXmBIkaYAJqFMf2SBVKH93k+U oObvPWLumhIvCLifva4A8KYd76AKAXQG/8NFFrkIeDxIpvD33FPDpEDivd5oIRLPpmul G8jwiY8Ts9v15bvyWeTFKwBhtLN+eKYKIa0UzznpinHbMsqf/9ozsOCCst6F5OE6Bct2 +thg==
X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvcQ53RVEwZfMsx00DLDT7PCwt1y4ETLtO7r8Iu6OevYkOXWIqjhum9pHYcuHLr5joQSuWL0etaD2q3/TQ==
X-Received: by 10.107.130.16 with SMTP id e16mr4645857iod.38.1477526921117; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 17:08:41 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.107.129.225 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Oct 2016 17:08:40 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <42BA6A75-AE2D-4C5E-A879-731D18EBB67B@weargoggles.co.uk>
References: <CAOdDvNqam930_0eA1p3yHW+xDdOm0AAMKvVKe6xwNwm1itpRpQ@mail.gmail.com> <42BA6A75-AE2D-4C5E-A879-731D18EBB67B@weargoggles.co.uk>
From: Ben Maurer <ben.maurer@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 17:08:40 -0700
Message-ID: <CABgOVaLGvsW4LP8d2Y4w4y1Te6N+4fDKbOC8HYea8NmzJ5TQRw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Pete Wildsmith <pete@weargoggles.co.uk>
Cc: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113eb8ca47867c053fcd8b31"
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.218.43; envelope-from=ben.maurer@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi0-f43.google.com
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, W3C_AA=-1, W3C_WL=-1
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: titan.w3.org 1bzYFn-0005bA-BT d31cd17d7c7ff55076dcb620eb4356b0
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: ID for Immutable
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/CABgOVaLGvsW4LP8d2Y4w4y1Te6N+4fDKbOC8HYea8NmzJ5TQRw@mail.gmail.com>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/32678
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>

This extension is only for use by sites which actually ensure that they do
not change their resources. If a developer wishes to have the reload button
refresh subresources, they should not use immutable.

Keep in mind that all browsers have an escape hatch which lets the user do
a hard refresh. This does not invalidate any resources and requests them
from scratch.

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Pete Wildsmith <pete@weargoggles.co.uk>
wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> the relevant section of RFC7234 suggests that conditional requests before
> the end of the freshness lifetime are made at the discretion of the cache.
>
> > When a response is "fresh" in the cache, it can be used to satisfy
> subsequent requests without contacting the origin server, thereby improving
> efficiency.
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7234#section-4.2
>
> My understanding of your extension is that for responses with the
> extension, the implicit MAY in the quoted sentence would become a SHOULD or
> MUST.
>
> This seems to conflict with user-agents’ reload behaviour. If all
> resources that are not expected to change during the lifetime of the
> resource begin using this extension, will it not become necessary for
> ‘reload’ to invoke a process which ignores the extension for the same
> reason that ‘max-age=0’ is now sent?
>
> Pete
>
> > On 26 Oct 2016, at 22:02, Patrick McManus <pmcmanus@mozilla.com> wrote:
> >
> > [as individual]
> >
> > FYI
> >
> > A new version of I-D, draft-mcmanus-immutable-00.txt
> > has been successfully submitted by Patrick McManus and posted to the
> > IETF repository.
> >
> > Name:           draft-mcmanus-immutable
> > Revision:       00
> > Title:          HTTP Immutable Responses
> > Document date:  2016-10-26
> > Group:          Individual Submission
> > Pages:          4
> > URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mcmanus-
> immutable-00.txt
> > Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> doc/draft-mcmanus-immutable/
> > Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mcmanus-immutable-00
> >
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    The immutable HTTP response Cache-Control extension allows servers to
> >    identify resources that will not be updated during their freshness
> >    lifetime.  This assures that a client never needs to revalidate a
> >    cached fresh resource to be certain it has not been modified.
> >
>
>
>