Re: #290: Motivate one-year limit for Expires

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Sun, 24 July 2011 18:11 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4661421F8A64 for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:11:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sJpXVMA4lJrl for <ietfarch-httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:11:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from frink.w3.org (frink.w3.org [128.30.52.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6132721F8A23 for <httpbisa-archive-bis2Juki@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 11:11:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lists by frink.w3.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <ietf-http-wg-request@listhub.w3.org>) id 1Ql38a-0002ER-Ob for ietf-http-wg-dist@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:10:48 +0000
Received: from lisa.w3.org ([128.30.52.41]) by frink.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1Ql38T-0002DW-S0 for ietf-http-wg@listhub.w3.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:10:41 +0000
Received: from mxout-07.mxes.net ([216.86.168.182]) by lisa.w3.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <mnot@mnot.net>) id 1Ql38S-00065R-S2 for ietf-http-wg@w3.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:10:41 +0000
Received: from dhcp-1790.meeting.ietf.org (unknown [130.129.23.144]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EBBF222E254; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:10:19 -0400 (EDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
In-Reply-To: <20110724180605.GV22405@1wt.eu>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 14:10:18 -0400
Cc: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <3FCE9E1A-6493-470D-8017-E68C8A8FC9A1@mnot.net>
References: <891657B9-2F11-43D6-A9A0-4C6663DAC127@mnot.net> <20110724175303.GU22405@1wt.eu> <6F86A490-84EA-4CD3-925D-BD39A23E79FE@mnot.net> <20110724180605.GV22405@1wt.eu>
To: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084)
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=216.86.168.182; envelope-from=mnot@mnot.net; helo=mxout-07.mxes.net
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9
X-W3C-Hub-Spam-Report: BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001
X-W3C-Scan-Sig: lisa.w3.org 1Ql38S-00065R-S2 84594c24e86419aa32a8ff16d69a6c28
X-Original-To: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Subject: Re: #290: Motivate one-year limit for Expires
Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/3FCE9E1A-6493-470D-8017-E68C8A8FC9A1@mnot.net>
Resent-From: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
X-Mailing-List: <ietf-http-wg@w3.org> archive/latest/11052
X-Loop: ietf-http-wg@w3.org
Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Resent-Sender: ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ietf-http-wg.w3.org>
List-Help: <http://www.w3.org/Mail/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-http-wg@w3.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-http-wg-request@w3.org?subject=unsubscribe>
Resent-Message-Id: <E1Ql38a-0002ER-Ob@frink.w3.org>
Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:10:48 +0000

On 24/07/2011, at 2:06 PM, Willy Tarreau wrote:
>> 
>> Why should they ignore if they don't have the problem?
> 
> How can they know whether there is a problem ? Let's imagine that my server
> is set one year in the future and emits Expires dates one year and a month
> away. What I understand is that people were suggesting that more than one
> year was a sign of misconfiguration which is the case here. So probably that
> ignoring the date is easier to recover from than keeping the object in cache
> for that long.

I don't understand. 


>> Besides which, this would be introducing a requirement that makes several previously conformant implementations non-conformant. 
> 
> Well, not exactly since in the past it was a SHOULD NOT, so we don't know
> how recipients consider larger values (some may already decide to ignore
> them or to bound them to 1 year), which is the spirit of your proposal
> anyway.

No, there is no current requirement in HTTP for caches to impose the one-year limit; this would be a new requirement.


> I feel like two distinct issues are being discussed here :
>  - how to avoid recipient's wrong behaviour
>  - how to deal with an error at the server's
> 
> I was dicussing the second point but you appear to be discussing the former
> (which I agree with).
> 
> Maybe the second point is so marginal that it can safely be ignored ?
> 
> Regards,
> Willy
> 

--
Mark Nottingham   http://www.mnot.net/