Re: [httpstreaming] [conex] [dispatch] Q-HTTP

"Toby Moncaster" <toby@moncaster.com> Thu, 11 November 2010 10:52 UTC

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From: "Toby Moncaster" <toby@moncaster.com>
To: "'Mikael Abrahamsson'" <swmike@swm.pp.se>, "'Mike Hammer \(hmmr\)'" <hmmr@cisco.com>
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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 10:52:40 -0000
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Cc: dispatch@ietf.org, 'httpstreaming' <httpstreaming@ietf.org>, conex@ietf.org, 'Ingemar Johansson S' <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>, "'GARCIA ARANDA, JOSEJAVIER \(JOSE JAVIER\)'" <jose_javier.garcia_aranda@alcatel-lucent.com>
Subject: Re: [httpstreaming] [conex] [dispatch] Q-HTTP
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: conex-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:conex-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Mikael Abrahamsson
> Sent: 10 November 2010 22:08
> To: Mike Hammer (hmmr)
> Cc: dispatch@ietf.org; httpstreaming; conex@ietf.org; Ingemar Johansson
> S; Kathy McEwen; GARCIA ARANDA, JOSEJAVIER (JOSE JAVIER); Mark Watson;
> David Singer
> Subject: Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP
> 
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Mike Hammer (hmmr) wrote:
> 
> > 3) The people that build and operate the networks will double
> > (quadruple?) their investments for no additional return out of the
> > goodness of their hearts.
> 
> No, they're going to do it because if they don't give the customers
> what
> they promised, their customers are going to leave. 

And what about if the customer signed up to a 12 months contract?

>This is if there is
> a
> functional market and customers actually have a choice of providers. I
> realise this is not the case in parts of the world, but that doesn't
> mean
> we should solve that by technical means, that's a political and
> regulatory
> problem, it doesn't have any technical solution.

It is really hard to ignore the lack of proper competition. In the ideal
world there would be a perfect market, a large selection of providers, no
artificial barriers to changing provider and all users would behave in a
perfect rational economic manner. Then price would be driven down towards
cost and providers would have to invest in upgrade capacity.

> 
> Let's not forget that if you're congesting your core and distribution,
> you're not delivering what your customers have purchased. Period.

But let's also not forget that TCP is designed to fill available BW, and
versions such as CUBIC are getting pretty good at that. Given the rapid
increase in access speed, the required level of over-provisioning in the
core is going to become ridiculous.


> 
> Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
> 
> Congestion is acceptable on the customer access, it's not acceptable in
> the core. That means that any flows/pakets that should yield, are
> within a
> single customer domain, and thus in the customers own interest.
> 
> --
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
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