Re: [hybi] [whatwg] Web sockets and existing HTTP stacks

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Tue, 22 December 2009 01:46 UTC

Return-Path: <mnot@mnot.net>
X-Original-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40AB73A6778 for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:46:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.684
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.684 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.085, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IJD3p6z5ARpR for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:46:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mxout-08.mxes.net (mxout-08.mxes.net [216.86.168.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0093A691D for <hybi@ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:46:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from chancetrain-lm.mnot.net (unknown [118.209.61.160]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8E2BF509DA; Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:46:05 -0500 (EST)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
In-Reply-To: <5c902b9e0912181711o65f31266yd86b8db618a1dcb1@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:46:02 +1100
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <B0B57710-91BC-4CEC-ABA6-50318038E64B@mnot.net>
References: <557ae280911171402v7546e5e7n93a1e57f87dc10e5@mail.gmail.com> <557ae280911200711i5493e654k67c1f5f07336bfb9@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.62.0912032347360.15540@hixie.dreamhostps.com> <4B2C1D52.9020505@webtide.com> <5c902b9e0912181640n497169cdrfa71f9a2908e6ef3@mail.gmail.com> <20091219005442.GA10949@shareable.org> <5c902b9e0912181711o65f31266yd86b8db618a1dcb1@mail.gmail.com>
To: Justin Erenkrantz <justin@erenkrantz.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077)
Cc: whatwg@whatwg.org, hybi@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [hybi] [whatwg] Web sockets and existing HTTP stacks
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 01:46:30 -0000

There was a fairly long thread initiated by Ian on squid-dev, FYI:
  http://marc.info/?t=124700786100001&r=1&w=2

That discussion is very similar to this one.

Cheers,



On 19/12/2009, at 12:11 PM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org> wrote:
>> Given WebSocket's stated goals (on this list) of:
>> 
>>   - Not working through HTTP proxies, including intercepting proxies.
>>   - Not being HTTP compatible.
>>   - Not being correctly parsable by a correct HTTP request parser.
>> 
>> I'm thinking it would be easier to just use port 81 and be done with it.
> 
> Proxies (mainly reverse proxies) and caching are incredibly important
> to any real scalability efforts.  I'm not aware of many high-traffic
> web setups that don't rely upon massive amounts of front-ends.  So,
> any port 80 traffic to any big sites is very likely to hit an hardware
> box (F5, etc.) or a software balancer (a la mod_proxy or varnish or
> squid).  If the current WebSockets ID is intended to *fail* in those
> situations, the deployment story is likely to be a real non-starter...
> 
> I'm curious what the makeup of this hybi@ list/WG is - how many server
> or intermediary devs are on this?  From browsing the archives, it
> looks like it is mostly browser/user-agent developers so far.  --
> justin
> _______________________________________________
> hybi mailing list
> hybi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi


--
Mark Nottingham     http://www.mnot.net/