Return-Path: X-Original-To: hybi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hybi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C63AB13B138 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 22:03:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=oBu/TB+u; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Vh/JprN2 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TSUdqg4rS3VX for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 22:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EA3A13B0F4 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2017 22:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A7E20CB2; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 01:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 25 Oct 2017 01:03:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h=cc :content-type:date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; bh=OPK2s+msH7pI0YkcS6qy0n9845fzdY0VbH+9bwGjp/I=; b=oBu/TB+u Zg9IOHtXzTGqVZ7YYmKrc277t5/nsfsTuDtfOPzoKHehS22f6lg7tg3SjZuMu1zv 1X1CpMy2dQqaYhGnpo2gUNyq88AMP9wuBZWbGGfQb/PSdBf5kw3Lhql07edr2wDg izujnFDdCEoeyFh0eaD3d0QhUyXZpC+0/pm5KrU8aME5uecKCVelLfoGLoYYWIYF gfkRcCcCr6BD2e8EV207DuE3GJc0dDfcmFvJXwH0Jji/h9Q8ryfI0VPm9e+GlLn4 YcSnSWp1bqRtY87X0TgO8Wi7X37uUq5Aa4xsg+JUPj32bAtU2qa5g6IDu4uYg6DD qV6sbmzFoc6rmg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=OPK2s+msH7pI0YkcS6qy0n9845fzd Y0VbH+9bwGjp/I=; b=Vh/JprN2jdrRkFWbl8Z1/Y88QJnN2Lxv9idX6aJ7LpU5M 4TcZzVjzlYuHimfJIv2tx0rg/NJE6A9H/Th1ocC0dV7/ygu4qVwT3T0b8U0Q3c1j rJcWby7CYRrFYk419zoc7FEFsEptZprVwW90wdz6wQvV+TA+Visso6nA8GuoqkKb 2oxk/xG/E7gD30hc8JTxJ9x2bjwrRdZWsyvQsB6LhdjydAEDRQCgwmD+DE7znf8B 3mne9d7lqJtKJmWm9HHrDJMbSjeWVZxi1vG4d8Gh3yP2GokXxIozaTI9Dwng/Z9R rYwlFMqAdb6CnDpbMjOnde4lJwd1UIATe7LNfdm6A== X-ME-Sender: Received: from [192.168.1.18] (cpe-124-188-19-231.hdbq1.win.bigpond.net.au [124.188.19.231]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6660C7F967; Wed, 25 Oct 2017 01:03:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Nottingham Message-Id: <65E0F440-C2FC-44B5-BF26-05078C8CBBBD@mnot.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_23857E94-65AD-4A93-A07E-D8F1418C9EEE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.0 \(3445.1.7\)) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:03:10 +1100 In-Reply-To: Cc: HTTP Working Group , hybi To: Patrick McManus References: <150807649389.12130.9191022211105955718.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.1.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hybi] New Version Notification for draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-00.txt X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 05:03:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_23857E94-65AD-4A93-A07E-D8F1418C9EEE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey Patrick, Catching up after travel... The only thing that I don't like about this is covered in your FAQ: > # Instead of overloading CONNECT, why not a new TUNNEL method? > > Methods are generally end to end and, more importantly, HTTP version = independent. CONNECT is already a special snowflake in this regard. Note = that the only method 7540 defines is CONNECT - because all the others = are inherited from the semantic layer of 723x. Extending it is fairly = natural as its defined specifically for HTTP/2 while a new method would = not be well known as a version specific mechanism. But 7540 didn't *define* CONNECT, it just adapted how it's used on the = wire; the semantics are still "Hey proxy, give me a tunnel to THAT = host." Importantly, CONNECT here isn't being used to talk to a proxy, it's for = an origin. And, given how much extra machinery is being defined, I don't = see the downside of defining a new method with the specific semantics = you're looking for, rather than muddying those of an existing method = (which might have bad interactions with current configurations, tools, = etc.). Cheers, > On 16 Oct 2017, at 1:12 am, Patrick McManus = wrote: >=20 > FYI - also see = https://github.com/mcmanus/draft-h2ws/blob/master/README.md = >=20 > Comments, expressions of interest, etc are very welcome. >=20 >=20 > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > > Date: Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 10:08 AM > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-00.txt > To: Patrick McManus > >=20 >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Patrick McManus and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets > Revision: 00 > Title: Bootstrapping WebSockets with HTTP/2 > Document date: 2017-10-15 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 7 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-0= 0.txt = > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets/ = > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-00 = > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-= 00 = >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines a mechanism for running the WebSocket = Protocol > [RFC6455] over a single stream of an HTTP/2 connection. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org = . >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 -- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ --Apple-Mail=_23857E94-65AD-4A93-A07E-D8F1418C9EEE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hey = Patrick,

Catching up = after travel...

The only thing that I don't like about this is covered in = your FAQ:

> = # Instead of overloading CONNECT, why not a new TUNNEL method?
>
> Methods are generally end to end and, = more importantly, HTTP version independent. CONNECT is already a special = snowflake in this regard. Note that the only method 7540 defines is = CONNECT - because all the others are inherited from the semantic layer = of 723x. Extending it is fairly natural as its defined specifically = for HTTP/2 while a new method would not be well known as a version = specific mechanism.

But 7540 didn't *define* CONNECT, it just adapted how it's = used on the wire; the semantics are still "Hey proxy, give me a tunnel = to THAT host."

Importantly, CONNECT here isn't being used to talk to a = proxy, it's for an origin. And, given how much extra machinery is being = defined, I don't see the downside of defining a new method with the = specific semantics you're looking for, rather than muddying those of an = existing method (which might have bad interactions with current = configurations, tools, etc.).

Cheers,


On 16 Oct 2017, at 1:12 am, Patrick McManus <mcmanus@ducksong.com> wrote:

FYI - also see https://github.com/mcmanus/draft-h2ws/blob/master/README.md=

Comments, = expressions of interest, etc are very welcome.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: = Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 10:08 AM
Subject: New Version = Notification for draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-00.txt
To: Patrick McManus <mcmanus@ducksong.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Patrick McManus and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:          =  draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets
Revision:       00
Title:          Bootstrapping WebSockets with = HTTP/2
Document date:  2017-10-15
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          7
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets/ Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-00
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mcmanus-httpbis-h2-websockets-00


Abstract:
   This document defines a mechanism for running the WebSocket = Protocol
   [RFC6455] over a single stream of an HTTP/2 connection.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



--
Mark Nottingham  =  https://www.mnot.net/

= --Apple-Mail=_23857E94-65AD-4A93-A07E-D8F1418C9EEE--