Re: [hybi] WebSocket, TLS and intermediaries
Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> Wed, 21 July 2010 04:48 UTC
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Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:48:16 +0200
From: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
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Cc: Hybi <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] WebSocket, TLS and intermediaries
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On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 05:01:02PM -0700, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > BTW - there is another data point here; deployment of WebSockets over port 80 was measured in Chrome to have ~67% success rate today. Deployment over port 443 (with TLS) has a >95% success rate. So, if you don't use TLS, then browsers and websites will need to be made more complex to deal with the edge case of WebSockets failing in weird ways due to existing intermediaries which fail, even after the WebSocket handshake. > > This point is very important. Building on top of TLS has huge practical benefits. I think this outweighs the desire to more easily build transparent intermediaries. Any mechanism that allows intermediaries without being authorized by either endpoint is by definition a security vulnerability in the protocol. > > I think the benefits of TLS also outweigh the "amateur server implementor" argument. I don't think we want to make it easy to implement a security hole. There's no "security hole" here. If you don't need security, use port 80, if you need security, use port 443. That's been working that way for the web for decades and that's no secret even for non-technical people. Clear traffic offers reliability and large possibilities while ciphered traffic offers security with less possibilities. Nothing new here. Willy
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- Re: [hybi] NAT reset recovery? Was: Extensibility… Vladimir Katardjiev
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- Re: [hybi] NAT reset recovery? Was: Extensibility… Jamie Lokier
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- Re: [hybi] NAT reset recovery? Was: Extensibility… Jamie Lokier
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- Re: [hybi] Extensibility mechanisms? Ian Hickson
- Re: [hybi] Extensibility mechanisms? John Tamplin
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- Re: [hybi] Extensibility mechanisms? Roberto Peon
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- Re: [hybi] WebSocket, TLS and intermediaries Thomson, Martin
- Re: [hybi] Extensibility mechanisms? Jamie Lokier
- Re: [hybi] WebSocket, TLS and intermediaries Maciej Stachowiak
- Re: [hybi] WebSocket, TLS and intermediaries Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] WebSocket, TLS and intermediaries Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] WebSocket, TLS and intermediaries Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] WebSocket, TLS and intermediaries Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] Extensibility mechanisms? Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] Extensibility mechanisms? Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] Extensibility mechanisms? Roberto Peon
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