Re: [hybi] updated Charter proposal

Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org> Thu, 22 October 2009 01:08 UTC

Return-Path: <jamie@shareable.org>
X-Original-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D9E13A68D6 for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:08:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.587
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YmZU5VBBTHm7 for <hybi@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail2.shareable.org (mail2.shareable.org [80.68.89.115]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A6B3A6876 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jamie by mail2.shareable.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <jamie@shareable.org>) id 1N0mA5-0000pd-LM; Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:08:17 +0100
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:08:17 +0100
From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
Message-ID: <20091022010817.GD27677@shareable.org>
References: <4ADEC7A0.7040307@ericsson.com> <4ADF20C7.9030601@stpeter.im>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <4ADF20C7.9030601@stpeter.im>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11)
Cc: "hybi@ietf.org" <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] updated Charter proposal
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:08:13 -0000

Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> Somewhere in the text we need to make it clear what kind of intermediate
> entities we're talking about -- does that include entities which are in
> some sense HTTP-aware or HTTP-optimized (proxies, load balancers,
> caches, etc.) or also entities that are in some sense more generalized
> (firewalls, network address translators, etc.).

Firewalls and NATs are quite important to HyBi.  Because the server
can't initiate connections, it's necessary for connections to be kept
open as long as the client wishes to receive messages.  Firewalls and
NATs need enough keepalive packets to stop them blocking a connection
in mid use.  And "ping" requests with responses from one side are
not the most efficient way to do that.

HyBi may also need a strategy to cope when a firewall or NAT
spontaneously blocks a connection in the middle of it's use too.  That
might be deferred to the application (bet lots of them will get it
wrong if so), but it should at least be addressed.

-- Jamie