Re: [hybi] Call for interest: multiplexing dedicated for WebSocket

Tobias Oberstein <tobias.oberstein@tavendo.de> Tue, 04 June 2013 10:38 UTC

Return-Path: <tobias.oberstein@tavendo.de>
X-Original-To: hybi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2795E21F9BC3 for <hybi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 03:38:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.479
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J2iAo6OGk1iq for <hybi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 03:38:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EXHUB020-3.exch020.serverdata.net (exhub020-3.exch020.serverdata.net [206.225.164.30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7794721F9C5F for <hybi@ietf.org>; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 02:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net ([169.254.3.90]) by EXHUB020-3.exch020.serverdata.net ([206.225.164.30]) with mapi; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 02:33:44 -0700
From: Tobias Oberstein <tobias.oberstein@tavendo.de>
To: Simone Bordet <sbordet@intalio.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 02:33:42 -0700
Thread-Topic: [hybi] Call for interest: multiplexing dedicated for WebSocket
Thread-Index: Ac5hBN4xQ9d7jZxERJSJyt6o7srJ0AAAEZWA
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D4422DC213B8@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <CAH9hSJZxr+aG7GZa4f-dUOTGj4bnJ+3XxivUX4jei5CMyqN4LQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAH9hSJZUG1f+3Uk=t2=A5i4O9=wPvAisspM=pgmGEH9emTL9-Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAH9hSJZai_UuxW4O6mZcEJT2DJoURtLo16XNci1qkYVWv4HVdg@mail.gmail.com> <007501ce56f0$67f74080$37e5c180$@noemax.com> <519CD6A1.7080708@ericsson.com> <519CE075.4000106@tavendo.de> <CAM5k6X9WmO80hiQZ6_GqK66PAd3of=2ZRi9=VrWj52apA1+=5g@mail.gmail.com> <CAFWmRJ2Hbe0x5FeV2T7Gkp3WEsxQHe2=YPBTgvHYLcus3A4rBQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAH9hSJYOPvsFPDXLOa29ASd8xavLdvfRK_cVd=Uc=Vaydz1O=w@mail.gmail.com> <CAFWmRJ2M0Gtoz80+6v+=0Ldm9+xE2brqD2shVcBPuNz+QGiKHg@mail.gmail.com> <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D4422DC20DAA@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net> <CAGzyod7o8AR2WxNrkZ-WWb5nc3zAJMvWhpfNVaW26sregESyjQ@mail.gmail.com> <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D4422DC2133A@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net> <CAFWmRJ1EJVjFV1o2OcAtz4e=BTuSgdzsw-gyAi-TW8+iTb-QWw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAFWmRJ1EJVjFV1o2OcAtz4e=BTuSgdzsw-gyAi-TW8+iTb-QWw@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
acceptlanguage: de-DE, en-US
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "hybi@ietf.org" <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] Call for interest: multiplexing dedicated for WebSocket
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 10:38:31 -0000

> Sure. But I fail to see why you need MUX for your use case. One duplex
> connection seems enough to me.

Example: Say I want to write a single-page browser app that has both low-latency chatty traffic and mass-data traffic (e.g. chat + file transfer).

I want the chatty traffic maintain it's low-latency, while mass-data transfers are concurrently happening.

This could be done by muxing 2 logical WS over a physical WS with the first WS having high-prio vs the 2nd WS.

So a small auto-fragment size plus flow-control and scheduling would be helpful.

Doing this in JS seems suboptimal the least ..

> 
> > So I'd say a WS-MUX with flow-control (draft there) plus
> priorization/scheduling (not there) is "the last missing piece". Lets finish it.
> 
> The problem I see is that the 2 features you mention here are quite
> complicated to specify and implement correctly, i.e. we duplicate the larger

I agree .. those are tricky. FWIW I am willing to invest time and effort to extend Autobahn testsuite for WS extensions. We are working now on permessage-deflate.

> effort undertaken by HTTP/2.

It all depends on perspective, goals and use cases .. but I can follow your view .. guess Jetty wants to have both WS and SPDY.

/Tobias