IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [hybi] The future of WebSockets, and the WiSH proposal

Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com> Tue, 25 April 2017 08:52 UTC

Return-Path: <tyoshino@google.com>
X-Original-To: hybi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1AE112946E for <hybi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 01:52:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lkmHEi9CqSnF for <hybi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 01:52:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wr0-x236.google.com (mail-wr0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5DA81294EF for <hybi@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 01:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wr0-x236.google.com with SMTP id l50so30939957wrc.3 for <hybi@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 01:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5OXkLLTlbWLYrm/5Llk/zSLbLV3ndVn6ovqIVxlFwxw=; b=M3nZl8XbE3dkbhNK9o1wO6V9V9zaFd9P4ImOJrD0V2saOH74+JVY/upuTIh4eyoCQx hHi0uppeAQM0cPdaI5AdHN8tgeeEeQnDIzwq/iuqsDzo1zB+PRVk+dr0SCrh9DvSdfvu Z7C6DIKK3hJm55xJFZdUwS1GYVX1Vqh7qi171j+hD9Z3t3kyYMWeVeJD0QCTcyUQapLH 0+a+5Sfo3gSgQsvlUGmH99pS9KEmnFrQ4Fiw/dP6tM8CYGCe7314tzjfQS3FptugoFS2 UE3qEp77ugJQkXSTA8FOaXorZduAyF4vxrvGZk2XO2cXQnJrJJ5SPV+RHOCe7+pK7ThC 9j/g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5OXkLLTlbWLYrm/5Llk/zSLbLV3ndVn6ovqIVxlFwxw=; b=S87Ibf3FnoJQGbvTXYhpPLsaDx0tbt9EQAyHVnfLX2mhe5oux70L+V4n31/JQa3pjo YuQiSQbHHRgjkimCwwXk+5eZDjRDzvrEunJIyqzTwyUdqpaA+/Ty1PnrYvuO5R+LNmRk FqMqwvLNpFnjMJ8Vr/9nMxUzf6X7eLB4f/sEzzluEfUfJTKCSPwTOf0KB4/if9FOj/DN I9Z9F3xht09wKN+4Svxa9RDa5EcNUU2MC1Yxwe7mb1GFiRB1yK1fdyc0zMDlwg+JAsPe hi/lBYyYCbk+mNZeb9cOmoGHX0dmQMvCj7oPa2+44XN2jIjRcrlCyltPvd8Itt+RWN4u zU3w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5x1KGTHNEZXKEbUTHr8nawmMjhZiHPB38X0LmBeKxiNmgud87q Lag8JTATO9/hQjPFG/eMvNmr9QK7Bx4JH8UWHw==
X-Received: by 10.223.173.74 with SMTP id p68mr8775066wrc.163.1493110327097; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 01:52:07 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.223.170.218 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 01:51:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CADnb78iPu7ACqZkYJ6SqceE2JNtV+y6M3ojT5PdGmDVoqZHsyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH9hSJYpnp0FXt9SsrujJM4OHcXe=pryUtHmM6dmcpgG67hdBw@mail.gmail.com> <CADnb78iPu7ACqZkYJ6SqceE2JNtV+y6M3ojT5PdGmDVoqZHsyQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 17:51:46 +0900
Message-ID: <CAH9hSJZk-t-UwOD0jnaKr_M4uoHYwsCKU256ZsKxoVgwuWzxnQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>
Cc: "hybi@ietf.org" <hybi@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045d597ca8a51c054df9d6f7"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hybi/NcmXYHrspxE2V9VwvOVRdXFwiz8>
Subject: Re: [hybi] The future of WebSockets, and the WiSH proposal
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hybi/>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:52:11 -0000

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com>
> wrote:
> > We’d like to hear your feedback on the WiSH proposal and/or any general
> > thoughts on how to evolve WS.
>
> I still don't really understand why we'd put new code in browsers
> before gaining some experience with full-duplex fetch(). What
> advantages remain? That you get a dedicated connection? That the
> frames are slightly smaller? Can we find ways to get those advantages
> into fetch() and a future version of HTTP?
>

Yes, theoretically there are lots of overlap between what the
fetch()/Streams effort realizes and current/WiSH-ed WebSocket realizes.

However, there is existing big WebSocket ecosystem based on the WebSocket
web API, server APIs designed to match it, intermediaries, etc. I'd like to
hear opinions from them. That's actually one of the main purposes of this
discussion.

The bottom of the background section of the I-D (
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yoshino-wish-02#section-2) is
unintentionally (I forgot to update it) left to be talking about using WiSH
framing over fetch()/Streams to improve the WebSocket ecosystem without
introducing any dedicated browser code. This is also a possible option
though it requires developers to include Polyfill in their code.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email