Re: [hybi] Process! was: [whatwg] HttpOnly cookie for WebSocket?

[Ian Hickson <[e-mail]>]

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, SM wrote:
> At 08:17 PM 1/28/2010, Ian Hickson wrote:
> > I'm happy to work with the IETF, the point is just that the IETF 
> > should cooperate with the WHATWG, on a joint effort, just like the W3C 
> > cooperates with the WHATWG over HTML5.
> 
> The IETF is the sum of the voices from the individuals who participate 
> in the process.

As is the WHATWG.


> The charter says that this Working Group will take into consideration 
> the concerns raised by the W3C WebApps working group.

But it doesn't mention the WHATWG, which is working on this spec.


> It has already been agreed that the HyBi working group will take on 
> prime responsibility for the specification of the WebSockets protocol.

By whom?


> People from the WHATWG are welcome to participate in the IETF process.

One could equally say:

People from the IETF are welcome to participate in the WHATWG process.

However, instead, I suggest we work together, just like the W3C and the 
WHATWG are cooperating on a dozen other specs.


> > To be blunt, though, if the IETF wants trust, it should earn it. Had 
> > the IETF actually approached the WHATWG community or even mentioned 
> > working with the WHATWG anywhere in the charter, or, say, responded to 
> > my feedback on the charter, or had a realistic timetable in the 
> > charter that acknowledged the stage at which the WebSockets spec is 
> > at, maybe trust would be easier.
> 
> As far as I know, there has been feedback on the charter from the 
> individuals in this Working Group.

I sent feedback on Wed, 6 Jan 2010, to [e-mail]. I received no reply.


> According to draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol-68, Ian Hickson from 
> Google, Inc. submitted the Internet-Draft and asserted that the 
> submission is in full comformance with BCP 78 and BCP 79.  It is Ian 
> that brought the specification to the IETF.  Ian accepted to give change 
> control to the IETF and this Working Group has taken up that work.

Actually, I was asked to submit it by the IETF. I agreed to do so while 
simultaneously publishing it through the WHATWG. At no point was it 
suggested that the WHATWG should stop working on it.


> It has previously been mentioned on another IETF mailing list that 
> people blink their eyes as they read the first page of a RFC.  After 
> submitting 68 revisions of the draft-hixie-thewebsocketprotocol, I would 
> assume that the author is fully aware of the IETF requirements. The 
> submission was made on behalf of a well-known company which has the 
> resources to assess the implications.  There are long-time participants 
> from that company that understand how the IETF works and they may be 
> able to explain the process to the author.

My goal is not to follow IETF process. My goal is to get interoperable 
implementations. If the IETF would like to take part in this effort, I am 
happy to be involved also. Let me know if you're interested.

-- 
Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'