Re: [hybi] Anti-patterns (was Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsocketprotocol-01.txt)

["Shelby Moore" <[e-mail]>]

The _ONLY_ positive scaling paradigm on the internet is the Bazaar...



[snip]

>> Natural systems self-organize.  Software systems do not.
>
>
> First it is not correct to imply that running software can not
> self-organize without programming

[snip]

> I suggest to you that is has already been proven that lowering the cycle
> costs for the feedback synergy loop between what software is doing and the
> programming (i.e. Bazaar and peer programmer model) squashes the Cathedral
> model in the reality of the free market:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
>
> And WebSockets is about applications, application programmers, and end
> users. That is an evolutionary feedback system.


The _ONLY_ positive scaling paradigm on the internet is the Bazaar!

Listen to this, especially around the 4:20:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/linux1_d50_48kbs.mp3
(48kbps)
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/linux1_d50_96kbs.mp3
(96kbps)



[snip]

> well as P2P.  However, the basic presumption of the WWW is that user is
> the programmer.  HTML was specifically designed for the amatuer
> programmer. And WebSockets opens a whole new world of possibilities
> especially if we don't force users to interact with a server. Rather
> spontaneously users could start interacting with each other.

Listen to the first 1.5 mins of the above audio, where it is explained
that half-amateur programmers bashing on code and releasing new
executables every day, evolves 6 months faster than cathedral models of
software evolution.

Heck as further evidence, we can't even produce a simple orthogonal
fragmentation framing and semantic message layer[7] in this WG without
getting bogged down in so many conflated issues (authentication,
cross-protocol security, encryption, etc) that have nothing to do with
WebSocket. First draft WebSocket, and leave those other things for the
market or a new WG to handle orthogonally. Don't conflate everything and
paralyze your evolution.  Smallest atomic things are the fastest.


[7] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg03901.html
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg03919.html
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg03854.html
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi/current/msg03833.html