Re: [hybi] The future of WebSockets, and the WiSH proposal

Andy Green <andy@warmcat.com> Tue, 25 April 2017 09:02 UTC

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To: Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com>, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl>
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From: Andy Green <andy@warmcat.com>
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 17:01:18 +0800
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Subject: Re: [hybi] The future of WebSockets, and the WiSH proposal
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On 04/25/2017 04:51 PM, Takeshi Yoshino wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Anne van Kesteren <annevk@annevk.nl 
> <mailto:annevk@annevk.nl>> wrote:
>
>     On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Takeshi Yoshino
>     <tyoshino@google.com <mailto:tyoshino@google.com>> wrote:
>     > We’d like to hear your feedback on the WiSH proposal and/or any
>     general
>     > thoughts on how to evolve WS.
>
>     I still don't really understand why we'd put new code in browsers
>     before gaining some experience with full-duplex fetch(). What
>     advantages remain? That you get a dedicated connection? That the
>     frames are slightly smaller? Can we find ways to get those advantages
>     into fetch() and a future version of HTTP?
>
>
> Yes, theoretically there are lots of overlap between what the 
> fetch()/Streams effort realizes and current/WiSH-ed WebSocket realizes.

Can someone point the rump of hybi-subscribers who have no idea what you 
are talking about with this "fetch() / Streams" stuff to some definitive 
documentation?
>
> However, there is existing big WebSocket ecosystem based on the 
> WebSocket web API, server APIs designed to match it, intermediaries, 
> etc. I'd like to hear opinions from them. That's actually one of the 
> main purposes of this discussion.
>
> The bottom of the background section of the I-D 
> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yoshino-wish-02#section-2) is 
> unintentionally (I forgot to update it) left to be talking about using 
> WiSH framing over fetch()/Streams to improve the WebSocket ecosystem 
> without introducing any dedicated browser code. This is also a 
> possible option though it requires developers to include Polyfill in 
> their code.

The basic problem underneath all this is the guys who defined http/2 
considered ws so declasse they did not need to honor the existing JS 
apis in http/2.

They took care of every other functionality in use in http/1 in http/2 
as far as I know.  But ws is a red-haired stepchild to them... the 
official stance is use http/1.  What about it offends their delicate 
sensibilities I dunno.

Anyway I appreciate Yoshino-san at least threw his hat in the ring with 
some data.

-Andy

>
>
>
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