Re: [hybi] Call for interest: multiplexing dedicated for WebSocket

Tobias Oberstein <tobias.oberstein@tavendo.de> Mon, 27 May 2013 11:59 UTC

Return-Path: <tobias.oberstein@tavendo.de>
X-Original-To: hybi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hybi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A12A221F91C4 for <hybi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 May 2013 04:59:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, WEIRD_PORT=0.001]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DKdb4mec9EPC for <hybi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 May 2013 04:59:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EXHUB020-3.exch020.serverdata.net (exhub020-3.exch020.serverdata.net [206.225.164.30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57C721F911B for <hybi@ietf.org>; Mon, 27 May 2013 04:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net ([169.254.3.33]) by EXHUB020-3.exch020.serverdata.net ([206.225.164.30]) with mapi; Mon, 27 May 2013 04:59:13 -0700
From: Tobias Oberstein <tobias.oberstein@tavendo.de>
To: Takeshi Yoshino <tyoshino@google.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 04:59:09 -0700
Thread-Topic: [hybi] Call for interest: multiplexing dedicated for WebSocket
Thread-Index: Ac5arAyvD1Tcy7RjSrylZZe22aqswgAIvDrA
Message-ID: <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D4422C3DA774@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net>
References: <CAH9hSJZxr+aG7GZa4f-dUOTGj4bnJ+3XxivUX4jei5CMyqN4LQ@mail.gmail.com> <634914A010D0B943A035D226786325D4422C319646@EXVMBX020-12.exch020.serverdata.net> <CAH9hSJYrrbSM3TTSKCQ=AMcwCfE4zqNAa1kuAvecrXZTLqy2gQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAH9hSJYrrbSM3TTSKCQ=AMcwCfE4zqNAa1kuAvecrXZTLqy2gQ@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
acceptlanguage: de-DE, en-US
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "hybi@ietf.org" <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] Call for interest: multiplexing dedicated for WebSocket
X-BeenThere: hybi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Server-Initiated HTTP <hybi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/hybi>
List-Post: <mailto:hybi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi>, <mailto:hybi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 11:59:22 -0000

>>However, when running _different_ apps on the same device connecting to the same origin,

>You meant same ws:// address?
 
Yes, sorry not origin.

I had a look into the MUX RFC again .. couldn't find anser to the following (may have missed sth):

What WS addresses would be eligible to be multiplexed over a single WS connection?

a) ws://somehost.com:999/
b) ws://somehost.com:999/foo
c) ws://somehost.com:999/bar

d) wss://somehost.com:999/
e) wss://somehost.com:999/foo
f) wss://somehost.com:999/bar

All of a) - f) are to the same target IP:port and hence could share the same TCP.

However, d) - f) use wss, and hence have a TLS handshake right after TCP establishment.

So d) - f) cannot be multiplexed over the same physical WS as a) - c)?

Or can an implementation just "silently" transport a)-c) also over wss, and hence multiplex all of a) - f) over 1 physical WS?

Lastly, a)-c) are to the same target IP:port and also WS schema (ws, not wss) - and hence can be multiplexed over 1 physical WS even though they are to different URL paths?

IOW: in the context of ws-mux, what is "same target"?

The combination of IP, port and WS schema (but not necessarily same URL path)?

>>Btw: assuming SPDY runs over TLS exclusively, is there any need for WS frame masking anymore?

>See this post by Eric about BEAST attack. I think it's not easy to conclude that mask is unncessary for wss.
>http://www.educatedguesswork.org/2011/09/security_impact_of_the_rizzodu.html
 
Ok, I see. Non-trivial.