Re: [hybi] frame length encoding
"Shelby Moore" <shelby@coolpage.com> Sun, 22 August 2010 16:59 UTC
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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:59:50 -0400
From: Shelby Moore <shelby@coolpage.com>
To: John Tamplin <jat@google.com>
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Cc: Hybi <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] frame length encoding
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> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Shelby Moore <shelby@coolpage.com> > wrote: > >> But I think you are missing my point as follows? >> >> Any ends that have a CPU load problem due to multi-core synchronization >> overhead, may set their maximum size to 125, if eliminating the >> conditional test will improve throughput. The downside is that is a lot >> of >> fragmentation that would not be necessary for the large source frames. >> > > I think it is ridiculous to suggest an implementation would avoid a couple > of conditional tests and instead would fragment a large frame into > 125-byte > frames to save CPU - the cost of the doing the fragmentation will dwarf > the > few instructions. I sensibly assumed that the end that has the load issue (thus is not the end doing the fragmenting) will choose the 125 frame size, because it has no way to know that the sender wants to send large frames at the time the maximum size handshake is negotiated. Even if it did know, I think it may act selfishly due to economics. >> The CPU load problem improves the larger the maximum frame can be, but >> apparently not if there is conditionals in the size. That was the only >> reason I proposed Option 1/15-bit, which gives a maximum frame size of >> 32767 without any conditionals, > > > There is still a check of whether the value is the flag to indicate an > 8-byte length. Having 2 compares to byte constants and associated > branches > instead of 1 compare to a short constant and a branch seems hardly a > significant additional processing requirement. I do not understand. With Option 1/15-bit, the 16-bits is read, the top bit is cleared, and that is the size to read (plus extra byte for rest of frame header). No conditionals (notwithstanding extensions which is an orthogonal discussion). >> and the cost is only adds 1 byte to header >> for frame sizes smaller than 126, and removes 1 byte for the 2% of frame >> sizes between 126 - 32767. >> > > Yes, and my point above is that you add a byte in the 98% case and save a > byte for the <2% case, which on average costs at least 0.96 bytes more per > frame. Say the average size is 50 bytes, then that is only a neglible 2% network overhead cost. If we fragment large messages to 125 instead of 32767 byte frames, not only do we increase the network overhead to 1.6% but we drastically increase CPU overhead. I am arguing that maybe it is not better to squeeze the last 2% of blood of performance and have it pop out as aliasing error in our design with a huge bottleneck in another scenario. That is the way nature (entropy, Murphy's Law) works if we aren't careful in our analysis. I am also trying to propose concensus that makes everyone happy.
- [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding gustav trede
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Roderick Baier
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Daniel Stenberg
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding gustav
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Daniel Stenberg
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Patrick McManus
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding gustav
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Patrick McManus
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Patrick McManus
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Brian
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Roberto Peon
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Roberto Peon
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding gustav
- [hybi] Fwd: frame length encoding Brian
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding gustav
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] Fwd: frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding gustav
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- [hybi] max frame size, was: frame length encoding Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] max frame size, was: frame length enco… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] max frame size, was: frame length enco… gustav
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding gustav
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Salvatore Loreto
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- [hybi] frame length encoding Brian
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Salvatore Loreto
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- [hybi] Fwd: frame length encoding Brian
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Salvatore Loreto
- Re: [hybi] max frame size, was: frame length enco… Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] max frame size, was: frame length enco… Scott Ferguson
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Brian
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Pieter Hintjens
- Re: [hybi] max frame size, was: frame length enco… Brian
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding gustav
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] frame length encoding Shelby Moore
- Re: [hybi] max frame size, was: frame length enco… Shelby Moore