Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking
Brian <theturtle32@gmail.com> Wed, 20 July 2011 09:50 UTC
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Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 02:50:09 -0700
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From: Brian <theturtle32@gmail.com>
To: Greg Wilkins <gregw@intalio.com>
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Cc: Hybi <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking
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+500. deflate-stream has always been utterly ridiculous in light of masking. It really should get the axe, and with extreme prejudice. Why is it still in the spec? I don't recall anyone citing a reasonable reason for keeping it, but there have been many very good arguments against it. It's not even very clearly specified in the document -- when I implemented it in my Flash client, I had to read the source code of Andy Green's implementation to figure out how it was supposed to work -- his implementation became my specification for the extension. Brian On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Greg Wilkins <gregw@intalio.com> wrote: > I've just noticed that the w3c is currently intending to make support > for deflate-stream mandatory! > > http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12917 > > This moves this extension from being useless, but mostly harmless, to > being a major impost on servers and intermediaries. > If the browser make this mandatory, then servers will obviously have > to support it at a cost of extra CPU, extra buffers but for no > significant savings in bandwidth. > Intermediaries that wish to act on frame boundaries will also have to > implement it. > > This illustrate that having silly options always puts you at risk of > people taking you up on those options. > > This extension is demonstrably broken and needs to be either fixed or > removed. > > regards > > > > On 20 June 2011 16:33, Greg Wilkins <gregw@intalio.com> wrote: > > As part of my continuing campaign against including deflate-stream in > > the specification as a standard extension, I did a quick test of how > > well it works when applied to masked frames. > > > > I took a days worth of traffic from an IRC channel and wrapped it up > > as JSON messages sent as websocket frames. > > There were 487 message that looked like: > > > > {channel:"#webtide", username:"tbecker", text:"joakime: jenkins > > had issues pulling from github a couple of times last week"} > > > > As an unmasked WS stream, it was 50675 bytes, and as a masked stream > > is was 52623 bytes. > > I then compressed both these streams with gzip and got 13306 bytes for > > unmasked and 51704 bytes for the masked!!!! > > > > So for this very typical example, masking was sufficiently random to > > completely negate the benefits of compression. > > > > So the deflate-stream "extension" is: > > > > + next to useless for inbound traffic > > + breaks all the rules of what an extension can do > > + is potentially vulnerable to injection as attackers can send > > repeated patterns that may subvert masking > > + can be replaced by the in-frame compression extension already > proposed. > > + was inserted in the draft with little or no discussion and without > > clear consensus. > > > > Can I call for a straw poll of who wants to keep this extension in the > spec? > > > > > > > > regards > > > _______________________________________________ > hybi mailing list > hybi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi >
- [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Andy Green (林安廸)
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Andy Green (林安廸)
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Dirkjan Ochtman
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Bob Gezelter
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Arman Djusupov
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Bruce Atherton
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Andy Green (林安廸)
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Andy Green (林安廸)
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Bruce Atherton
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Brian
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Arman Djusupov
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Philipp Serafin
- [hybi] Fwd: Re: deflate-stream and masking Justin Lee
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking David Endicott
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Alexander Philippou
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking David Endicott
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Patrick McManus
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Alexander Philippou
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Gabriel Montenegro
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Patrick McManus
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking David Endicott
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking David Endicott
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking David Endicott
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking David Endicott
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] deflate-stream and masking Peter Saint-Andre