Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [dispatch] WGLC of draft-ietf-dispatch-javascript-mjs-07)
Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> Fri, 01 May 2020 01:28 UTC
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To: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, Pete Resnick <resnick@episteme.net>
Cc: i18ndir@ietf.org
References: <20200430014516.01551188B50A@ary.qy> <33a39102-0385-e235-1cdc-57cf6dad4f4b@ix.netcom.com> <7AD06F46449F354499AC2E24@PSB> <ACB0D0AB-2271-409D-A9A1-DFFD5A1AEE93@episteme.net> <alpine.OSX.2.22.407.2004301241440.26342@ary.qy> <8CE808C7-DF4F-45A9-9C17-2D82A8B78A9E@episteme.net> <477C5A18357719590D6336D9@PSB> <0C7783A5-831D-4704-96ED-21D3FD374743@episteme.net> <alpine.OSX.2.22.407.2004302039080.28451@ary.qy>
From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:27:47 -0500
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Subject: Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [dispatch] WGLC of draft-ietf-dispatch-javascript-mjs-07)
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On 4/30/2020 7:52 PM, John R Levine wrote: > I'm wondering if the BOM hack is an ancient workaround for bugs in > some server in the 1990s that gave you UTF-16 regardless of what you > asked for, perhaps early versions of IIS. I hope no living web server > is still that broken. For what it's worth, the vast, /vast/ majority of these kinds of workarounds are not due to bugs in servers. They're due to /misconfigured /servers that early, buggy, and extremely popular OS-integrated clients (which broadly ignored content information, happily rendering, e.g., "text/plain" as a JPEG image in certain contexts) didn't complain about. To remain compatible with these servers, subsequent browsers have had to perpetuate these bugs; and because of this permissiveness, administrators in 2020 continue to persistently misconfigure servers: they don't see any errors from doing so. Fixing these problems would require a flag day -- coordinated with 1.7 billion websites -- after which browsers wouldn't put up with this kind of content mislabeling. Even though those specific browsers that led us to this swamp have been EOL for nearly two decades, that kind of massive coordination still remains infeasible. Nearly all of the MIME-specific issues cited on this list so far have this as their explanation. It's an absolute cornucopia of ugliness, and everyone involved with the situation is painfully aware of how bad it is. Permissive MIME handling in early web browsers remains a vivid demonstration of how aggressive application of Postel's Maxim at scale in widely-used consumer products necessarily ossifies an ever-increasing set of historical product bugs into protocols indefinitely. Although not cited directly, this specific mess was instrumental in the development of the advice in draft-iab-protocol-maintenance. In terms of what draft-ietf-dispatch-javascript-mjs should say, there are two disjoint paths we can decide to follow. The IETF can either document a fantasy world of platonic solids that we all wish existed, which would have virtually no practical application to implementors; or the IETF can document the world as it exists today, warts and all, with decades of baked-in unfortunate implementation decisions, and enable actual interoperability. Given this history, the two goals of producing a useful document and an ideologically pure document are in diametric opposition. I would hope we ultimately decide to do the former rather than the latter, and encourage the directorate to steer its feedback to the working group in a way that helps achieve this goal. /a
- [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [dispatch… Pete Resnick
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Pete Resnick
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John Levine
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John Levine
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John Levine
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Pete Resnick
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Asmus Freytag (c)
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John R Levine
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Pete Resnick
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John R Levine
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John Levine
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Pete Resnick
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John R Levine
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Adam Roach
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John R Levine
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Review volunteer needed (Fwd: [disp… Asmus Freytag