Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage
"Marc Blanchet" <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca> Fri, 14 June 2019 12:18 UTC
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From: Marc Blanchet <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Cc: Pete Resnick <resnick@episteme.net>, i18ndir@ietf.org, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@mozilla.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:18:12 -0400
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Subject: Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage
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On 13 Jun 2019, at 21:38, John C Klensin wrote: > Dear esteemed and rapidly-moving secretaries, > > Noting that tomorrow makes a month since you sent your "get back > to work" note, that there has been nothing more from you or > anyone else, and that things seem to be moving at the nearly > same rate they were after last summer's BOF, I thought I'd check > back in and tell people, more or less as a heads-up, what Patrik > and I have been up to. Some news: > > (1) Patrik and I have been working on a document that clarifies > and cleans up the new Unicode version review process that was, > in retrospect, not very well specified in RFC 5892. The I-D > identifies the two types of reviews, explained expectations, and > clarifies the role of the IANA tables. It probably needs one > more pass by each of us and then will be posted as > draft-klensin-idna-unicode-review. > > (2) One thing that document notes is that RFC 5892 very nearly > requires that, if Unicode changes code point properties in a way > that changes the IDNA2008 derived property, we adjust IDNA2008 > to preserve IDNA stability and consistency rather than following > along with Unicode. That is consistent with the promises we > made to the registrar community about preserving stability. It > is also the exact opposite of what we have actually done with > the Unicode 6.x, 11.0, and 12.0 reviews. For future versions > of Unicode, we propose to revert to the specified behavior in > which stability for IDNA is at least a strong preference. > > If that is what we do, it may add yet another irony to the > collection around things that are called IDNA. IIR, the > original core reason for the creation of UTR#46 was that > IDNA2008 wasn't forward compatible enough with IDNA2003. The > UTR#46 model was that if a label or potential label was valid at > one point, it needed to be valid forever. When we track Unicode > changes --as we and UTR#46 have been doing-- we create > instability for IDNA label validity. If we start favoring the > preservation of label validity (and invalidity) as 5982 > specifies, then the gap between IDNA2008 and UTR#46 almost > certainly increases. > > (3) If anyone hasn't noticed, Unicode 12.1 has been published. > Only one new code point since 12.0 and it decomposes properly > and there are no other changes, but we need to decide whether we > are reviewing, publishing summaries about, abd publishing IANA > tables for, interim (i.e., NN.x, x not zero) versions of > Unicode. The I-D mentioned above will have some text about > that, but we are open to different conclusions than it proposes. > > > (4) I'm working on a draft that explicitly addresses assumptions > that were made in the IDNA2008 design that have turned out to > not be true or not work as expected. It is partially a > follow-on to draft-klensin-idna-unicode-7-0-0 but without a lot > of the details and alternatives about non-decomposing > characters. Watch for something that will probably be called > draft-klensin-idna-architecture-00 in the fairly near future > (unless I shift to directorate time, in which case you should > expect it in early 2020). > > (5) draft-klensin-idna-architecture, discussed above, > necessarily contains a reference to > draft-klensin-idna-rfc5891bis, the registry restrictions > document, so that should be on someone's agenda too. > > (6) I suspect draft-klensin-idna-unicode-7-0-0, or at least > those details, of the non-decomposing character issues, should > be published for the historical record, so it would be good for > people to start thinking about that and what should be in it. > > That brings me to a key question. Noting that the main reason > for proposing the BOF that led to this directorate was to try to > get work on core I18N, and especially IDNA, issues under > control, my preference would be that the directorate take a look > at the drafts mentioned above (and probably Asmus's work on > troublesome characters, etc.) and make a recommendation to the > ADs about how to handle them. An alternative would be for us > to introduce the drafts on the IDNAbis WG mailing list and then > pass them directly to the ADs with a request for AD sponsorship > and, if needed, a short-term restart of that WG, which would get > them to the directorate that way. your description of the drafts seems to show that these are enough substantive that it requires a WG. my 2 cents, Marc. > There is a Plan C, but I'm > quite confident that almost no one would like it. > > So, Glorious Leaders and other directorate participants, how > would you like to proceed? > > john > > > --On Tuesday, May 14, 2019 13:01 -0500 Pete Resnick > <resnick@episteme.net> wrote: > >> Greetings, >> >> Your faithful secretaries are getting off of their respective >> rear-ends to get this directorate doing its regular >> directorate duties. This means reviewing documents that are >> entering Last Call (or at the request of a chair or AD) to >> look for i18n issues. To do this, we're going to want to >> triage those documents, and then assign those with potential >> issues to a reviewer; we don't have enough reviewers to look >> at every document like GenART does. The two of us can do some >> of that triage, but we could use some help, and for >> educational purposes we think it would be good to get helpers. >> >> A few of you have mentioned that you don't feel up to doing >> detailed i18n reviews of documents, but would be interested in >> doing (or learning to do) document triage. Please drop private >> email to either or both of us and let us know. Our plan is to >> have a small group "review meeting" with potential triagers >> and triage some documents together so you get the hang of it. >> We'll also be creating a wiki of triage hints and tricks based >> on the i18n bits of the old "Typical Apps Area Issues" wiki >> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/app/wiki/TypicalAppsAreaIssues> >> that the Apps ADs made some time ago. >> >> For the rest of you: Expect to see some documents appear in >> your queue in the next little bit. >> >> 2 x Pete > > > > > -- > I18ndir mailing list > I18ndir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i18ndir
- [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Pete Resnick
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Marc Blanchet
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Asmus Freytag (c)
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Marc Blanchet
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Pete Resnick
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Barry Leiba
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage John Levine
- [I18ndir] draft-faltstrom-unicode12 (was: Re: Get… John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] draft-faltstrom-unicode12 (was: Re:… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] draft-faltstrom-unicode12 (was: Re:… John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] draft-faltstrom-unicode12 Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage John R Levine
- [I18ndir] Civility (Was: Getting restarted and tr… Pete Resnick
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage John C Klensin
- Re: [I18ndir] Getting restarted and triage Asmus Freytag (c)