Re: [I18nrp] Last Call: <draft-faltstrom-unicode11-05.txt> (IDNA2008 and Unicode 11.0.0) to Informational RFC

Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org> Fri, 07 December 2018 05:34 UTC

Return-Path: <masinter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: i18nrp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: i18nrp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98EC6128CF3 for <i18nrp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 21:34:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.649
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CqGrjw6Qu80E for <i18nrp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 21:34:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com (mail-pf1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BA5A1277C8 for <i18nrp@ietf.org>; Thu, 6 Dec 2018 21:34:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id c73so1351773pfe.13 for <i18nrp@ietf.org>; Thu, 06 Dec 2018 21:34:25 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=4+NwIoYfcmGgkWRo4RDR9ekxR5paqYLbag4U+K30j4g=; b=t9kML9ihv9X6Lsqookt8cqcniVXRu+gpxCJ3XOpB+LOaSFOlRB0atGAnXPVTIyrfA0 1UEKMVyppVFhDCjU6tNQZtYLXnC6T4lD3auuw+I3An/IuNWEkL0PEn3/SaJeCUvuH1vJ 61e3luJK5vmH2XycMsi6Kr8/69Jajv/var0tozKKGAvPkLywxQSWI2gguqBc9BaQB7HL l71jwrP3+5QsTfdItVZXjfplogx5C3lCdXRi/KqS0ELQbFlRnWFKkSErcVBHjI6Ijlv0 OPHe1Gu4oTAYAzyyz57dHNXXZdspajfHnYtn4QVLFRUPOvFJ+tmffuc0OGZMQ88nNsRy euVw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=4+NwIoYfcmGgkWRo4RDR9ekxR5paqYLbag4U+K30j4g=; b=oiVQzfACAk7uGD9n6q3KJ6jZwsZLlFVE9oCCzJ2kr4CrjuRwNFZd0w44WPSNdOodwL Z/lEj7NE3JtSGfndm91fKjAD4KVcg8bkHUG5iYGFz6KdPB27PUXAumVULuB+veM8yZZG 9YEo+GIvTEinlauWj4GPl1Hjt1Lltyf+45SyNV0LBNwIPlBaRXSnn6IMaumFvwcqb17d zB93+A21EWYMiSeCxRROPS0i03GaK1TVbDsf5Axxr9DBYoYmSVVrOsZ+2yB/O1ckSinE WqzgsUQX96NZ1VoRjheKDp3p2ki2TWdiBzMLv/8uKb2bq2Y2ZzX10rMT+0hmztYMo94W GzOw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWY5jdKKEjQtuUxkicYHU901pBk3fJ7vvvujkLfd5hKo4ThRgL7j RHs3O4EQffim+fdDnDP2ePzZO7MwBDE=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/U9jOdHugKzFrWQwJjpOAUceQtYGIAUFGsbstLGdJqfH1CZe1+aunNwSP6CffJSleLurwZFgA==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:4611:: with SMTP id t17mr773624pga.119.1544160864596; Thu, 06 Dec 2018 21:34:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from TVPC (c-24-6-174-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.6.174.39]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o8sm3486783pfa.42.2018.12.06.21.34.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Dec 2018 21:34:23 -0800 (PST)
Sender: Larry Masinter <masinter@gmail.com>
From: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>
X-Google-Original-From: "Larry Masinter" <lmm@acm.org>
To: 'Patrik Fältström' <paf=40frobbit.se@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: i18nrp@ietf.org, 'Asmus Freytag' <asmusf@ix.netcom.com>, 'Paul Hoffman' <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
References: <154385119878.18333.5085298134102919486.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <FF6F9EB9-C73B-4EC0-AC4F-3E3BFBABA0AB@vpnc.org> <8E20D432-01B0-4B52-80BB-3348C5FE73AF@vpnc.org> <CC73FC25-92FC-4822-B267-15C41CE450F2@frobbit.se> <D81CDFF3-8CDF-4168-9CEA-E8DC3A133B73@vpnc.org> <217ede0e-ea1f-bb31-a276-f8c618c71278@ix.netcom.com> <8885EE4C-412E-4337-A099-66354A36CEA1@vpnc.org> <EC12FDAE-4ABD-4AD3-A35A-B39D2C8A0AE0@frobbit.se> <f4417f80-fa86-11e6-baf7-2365981e18b1@ix.netcom.com> <48A2A546-4FEA-4060-8706-34D210B2ABAF@frobbit.se> <055301d48dc8$0ea95120$2bfbf360$@acm.org> <07CB0B3B-E48A-40CD-BBC9-E6CAA2FB29F0@frobbit.se>
In-Reply-To: <07CB0B3B-E48A-40CD-BBC9-E6CAA2FB29F0@frobbit.se>
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2018 21:34:22 -0800
Message-ID: <001d01d48dee$82b415c0$881c4140$@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0
Thread-Index: AQLuHH7V14krpZsNZ4Fo+NzUu7802gGsbo1pAc2pzv8Bi4XfCAIpje2WAfWJ+7wBzjyAXAG8g2e4AkfNvv0DFpL47wJLefS0Ak+F4gKiilLGoA==
Content-Language: en-us
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i18nrp/WgObXCvxHyR3YEXNA4bZme2v59Y>
Subject: Re: [I18nrp] Last Call: <draft-faltstrom-unicode11-05.txt> (IDNA2008 and Unicode 11.0.0) to Informational RFC
X-BeenThere: i18nrp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Internationalization Review Procedures <i18nrp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/i18nrp>, <mailto:i18nrp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/i18nrp/>
List-Post: <mailto:i18nrp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:i18nrp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i18nrp>, <mailto:i18nrp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2018 05:34:27 -0000

In reply to my note of 7 Dec 2018, at 1:59
> > Registries should be conservative in the sense of advising their clients
about the likely usability of the registered name among their target
audience.
> > I don't think the IDNA RFCs currently are conservative enough.

> > As I've noted before, usability includes "re-enterable" (including
"retypable") .

Patrik replied:

> I might not agree with this, as for example very few characters in arabic
script are "retypable" for me.

That is important if you are in the registry's client's target audience. The
interesting point is that a "retypable" requirement "covers" many other
issues, including normalization, joiners, confusables, font choice. It's
plausible to restrict strings used in visual inspection to be retypable.

Usability may vary over time (hopefully no usable strings would become
unusable), depending on deployment.



 > So this is at least a separate issue. But what the
> registry chooses, I feel is up to them, as long as they do come up with a
good
> repertoire.

I think it would be reasonable to supply guidelines that are concrete and
value-based, even if difficult to measure (using Captcha?)

Larry
--
https://LarryMasinter.net