Re: [I18nrp] Last Call: <draft-faltstrom-unicode11-05.txt> (IDNA2008 and Unicode 11.0.0) to Informational RFC

Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org> Fri, 07 December 2018 19:28 UTC

Return-Path: <masinter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: i18nrp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: i18nrp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10965130FC1 for <i18nrp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 11:28:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.638
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.638 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tevFjdjwev3o for <i18nrp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 11:28:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pg1-x535.google.com (mail-pg1-x535.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::535]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B4DD130E96 for <i18nrp@ietf.org>; Fri, 7 Dec 2018 11:28:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pg1-x535.google.com with SMTP id y4so2119384pgc.12 for <i18nrp@ietf.org>; Fri, 07 Dec 2018 11:28:28 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-language:thread-index; bh=dkfYf/s7rxRFgTDAY0b2vjWWnsifcaLyT9pNzPfG0ys=; b=cul9z/XV8vOCpYDxfnxeE0KbHf/TnfLhSQO0ctGeJKbYEW7y4sa+I6A7W58sBBekH5 aaGktCPCfvhXHN1BSwYozvnY7Jt+Nq+3dxuV3ptVoU+FSXWYZZXfqkGpAgMNe4nkLvYd kG1yt/i2o2kYl4HWtGSYE2UNQP5edDqqp3onIg65Lnv+BdzqTet7auAXqJuN02F+SAhx LfXZ1b+qY61w/rnEfWR4YExfeP2D2uffIpoeMgMdtFu9GRG4k2ud1tVTVsCspTiGyNDC MbHlf/rjaRRAKy1gyuE0v8+fKp5pVAZon/WdvsXTokDogzLdM7wk7WHMgXYwNEsMws6F mW1Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-language:thread-index; bh=dkfYf/s7rxRFgTDAY0b2vjWWnsifcaLyT9pNzPfG0ys=; b=sPUXckbuhtnZPM2to7YSNbxhnJnNnYV8l9veLDMFiteigyGVP5V9PvlZuAzSTTI2i+ aZZTFUlNp/d5T5j59Q5SCtBrox2LotYwYWxzXTeHzU8nVPUJsNKgn17UNbNEuEW9SWyO RzjxPyLwkJKXIF930W7v8nQ37JyxByLqajOq79rFit2Fg3VQdid2bv5pNIjrMWpG/nVY y9uxacZJ5hRpVRyyKcXCPSyGpFHSkK6hnxSLFZF3hMQ+f+tUNi1LhtwKNZ4cjs1zjz8e lo8RScxAwa9rxCu4FUWDADN1QJdg8TR/oHJnhsLo5gHHmVDbN2zz1gWoAGPhjJZ3DlJl M2Zw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWblZAkKfS8uQsckh0qBDQt1zMYujiF+n7ZOe18PDKqLDjHxYcXS 9QvuH4qtb1r1wKiqcJkW3pA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WiN4tkrqE4GE+hJL+xguzi7LY/v74xyJAEzkYZdgxKQ9rwNEeM5jRgcIYBO8qAgOhCfISkMQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a62:6f88:: with SMTP id k130mr3439237pfc.234.1544210907423; Fri, 07 Dec 2018 11:28:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from TVPC (c-24-6-174-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.6.174.39]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 139sm10372651pfb.127.2018.12.07.11.28.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Dec 2018 11:28:26 -0800 (PST)
Sender: Larry Masinter <masinter@gmail.com>
From: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>
X-Google-Original-From: "Larry Masinter" <lmm@acm.org>
To: "'Asmus Freytag (c)'" <asmusf@ix.netcom.com>, 'Patrik Fältström' <paf=40frobbit.se@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: i18nrp@ietf.org, 'Paul Hoffman' <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
References: <154385119878.18333.5085298134102919486.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <FF6F9EB9-C73B-4EC0-AC4F-3E3BFBABA0AB@vpnc.org> <8E20D432-01B0-4B52-80BB-3348C5FE73AF@vpnc.org> <CC73FC25-92FC-4822-B267-15C41CE450F2@frobbit.se> <D81CDFF3-8CDF-4168-9CEA-E8DC3A133B73@vpnc.org> <217ede0e-ea1f-bb31-a276-f8c618c71278@ix.netcom.com> <8885EE4C-412E-4337-A099-66354A36CEA1@vpnc.org> <EC12FDAE-4ABD-4AD3-A35A-B39D2C8A0AE0@frobbit.se> <f4417f80-fa86-11e6-baf7-2365981e18b1@ix.netcom.com> <48A2A546-4FEA-4060-8706-34D210B2ABAF@frobbit.se> <055301d48dc8$0ea95120$2bfbf360$@acm.org> <07CB0B3B-E48A-40CD-BBC9-E6CAA2FB29F0@frobbit.se> <001d01d48dee$82b415c0$881c4140$@acm.org> <1f879380-f586-cddf-ae4b-62cfc106308a@ix.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: <1f879380-f586-cddf-ae4b-62cfc106308a@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2018 11:28:26 -0800
Message-ID: <00f301d48e63$071e9be0$155bd3a0$@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F4_01D48E1F.F8FBD110"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0
Content-Language: en-us
thread-index: AQLuHH7V14krpZsNZ4Fo+NzUu7802gGsbo1pAc2pzv8Bi4XfCAIpje2WAfWJ+7wBzjyAXAG8g2e4AkfNvv0DFpL47wJLefS0Ak+F4gIB+9VstQH5lg4FomuSsQA=
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i18nrp/hc7JH-jwaXfbUw5-lCp02dN2IIk>
Subject: Re: [I18nrp] Last Call: <draft-faltstrom-unicode11-05.txt> (IDNA2008 and Unicode 11.0.0) to Informational RFC
X-BeenThere: i18nrp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Internationalization Review Procedures <i18nrp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/i18nrp>, <mailto:i18nrp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/i18nrp/>
List-Post: <mailto:i18nrp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:i18nrp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i18nrp>, <mailto:i18nrp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2018 19:28:30 -0000

I meant “usability” in the software engineering sense in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usability

Usability isn’t a binary “usable” vs. “unusable”. Rather, usability can vary by the task at hand and the user performing the task.

At least, that’s why I suggested “likely usability” and “among their target audience”.

 

The reason for emphasizing transcription is not that there aren’t other operations that are possibly more frequent (copy/paste a URL from one context to another, remember on a bookmark list) but rather that transcription is the most stringent requirement – if a user can transcribe a name resulting in the same sequence of Unicode codepoints, then they can display the name, distinguish the name from other (transcribable) names. 

 

From: Asmus Freytag (c) <asmusf@ix.netcom.com> 
Sent: Friday, December 7, 2018 12:17 AM
To: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>; 'Patrik Fältström' <paf=40frobbit.se@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: i18nrp@ietf.org; 'Paul Hoffman' <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: Re: [I18nrp] Last Call: <draft-faltstrom-unicode11-05.txt> (IDNA2008 and Unicode 11.0.0) to Informational RFC

 

On 12/6/2018 9:34 PM, Larry Masinter wrote:

In reply to my note of 7 Dec 2018, at 1:59

Registries should be conservative in the sense of advising their clients

about the likely usability of the registered name among their target
audience.

They simply should prohibit unusable sequences.

A./