Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ?
Patrik Fältström <paf@frobbit.se> Wed, 13 February 2019 11:03 UTC
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From: Patrik Fältström <paf@frobbit.se>
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 12:02:58 +0100
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References: <20190204225047.02583200DC1666@ary.qy> <6660b7e2-1d5b-6a5d-3d1c-55a757e24843@ix.netcom.com> <ADDA4540-9169-4EE6-B33E-3A0D9EED0BD7@frobbit.se> <16ff0d27-9508-7fdd-bc89-9d6fd47396b1@ix.netcom.com> <D5B49CC8-7AEF-4E81-8774-F3F1F05682E8@frobbit.se> <320f4bc3-17b1-595b-34c7-8f95f69c0f33@ix.netcom.com> <B87C6774-4FF7-4A18-A81D-D0834401C293@frobbit.se> <bc7b727d-f75c-bbba-4f63-ebd1dcd87085@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <A5549B92-9414-4210-A94D-8E53339D3961@frobbit.se> <96242bed-ec65-5955-5a4d-5699b9e3cfb9@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <2207F716-8033-46B7-A750-FB226B870D86@frobbit.se> <ccfd52e0-25b9-b04d-0bcf-701606077296@ix.netcom.com> <EDE1FBF9-CDBA-476A-BB8A-15CFF60EAA06@frobbit.se> <47f746f8-b314-1263-0925-e049de90856f@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
To: "\"Martin J. Dürst\"" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/i18nrp/v67T1LRZ-gcEdnEPY61KDicTfH4>
Subject: Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ?
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> On 13 Feb 2019, at 11:31, Martin J. Dürst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> wrote: > > Hello Patrik, others, > >> On 2019/02/13 17:25, Patrik Fältström wrote: >> >> >>>> On 13 Feb 2019, at 09:19, Asmus Freytag (c) <asmusf@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2/12/2019 11:46 PM, Patrik Fältström wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 13 Feb 2019, at 08:18, Martin J. Dürst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> If f(x) is the generic mapping, and f'(x) is the mapping of the >>>>> exceptions, then f(f'(x)), which applies f' *before* f, should do the job. >>>> This works in some cases and not in other cases. >>> Examples? >> >> This is math. :-) >> >> If f(x)=x’ and in the locale used f(x) should be x and not x’, you have dependencies between f(x) and f’(x) if you want f(f’(x)) to be x’ and f(f”(x)) to be x. > > Well, I have to admit that I didn't explicitly talk about that case in > my 'proof'. For functions in general (e.g. a function such as f(x) = > (x+7) mod 15), you are right. > > But f(x) (the general mapping function) is idempotent (i.e. f(x) = > f(f(x)), which means that you can map as many times as you want, you > always get the same result). This is also true for any locale-dependent > mapping function. I can not say it is. It might be a requirement that you set on the function. I don’t know enough about various languages in the world, bidirectionality and punctuation. See latest discussions about punctuation in Armenian language and script and it’s impact on registration. > If it were not the case, human users would be very > surprised: a maps to A, but then A maps to a: That wouldn't make any sense. No, we talk about f(a)=b and f(b)=c as one thing and f(a)=b and f(b)=a as a different one. > Also, and even more important, for the general mapping function, if x is > allowed in IDNs, then f(x) = x. That’s another requirement. Maybe in one locale you DO map from one to another? > This may not be true for a > locale-dependent mapping function (i.e. it would be possible for a > German mapping function to map (Hungarian) ȁ to ä, although that's not > needed because German keyboards won't produce ȁ in the first place). It might produce it via copy and paste. > So if f(x)=x', that would mean that x is not allowed in IDNs. That would > mean that it is impossible that in a specific locale, the desired result > of f(f'(x)) is x. It may be different from x', i.e. y, but we can easily > get this by defining that f'(x) = y. > > So applying the (in most if not all cases very small) locale-specific > mapping before the general mapping always will work. I don’t understand what your goal is. What I am saying is that what mapping is done when a string enters the system the first time, mapping is to happen and it is context dependent where context can for example be locale. What is wrong with that statement? Patrik > > Regards, Martin.
- [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? John Levine
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? John Levine
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? John R Levine
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag (c)
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? John R Levine
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Nico Williams
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? John R Levine
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag (c)
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? John Levine
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag (c)
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag (c)
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? John R Levine
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag (c)
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? John R Levine
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag (c)
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? John Levine
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Asmus Freytag (c)
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Patrik Fältström
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [I18nrp] Mappings for IDNA2008 ? Martin J. Dürst