Re: [I2nsf] Service Layer Policies - Post 0: note structure

[Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>]

Aldo, 

Thank you for the suggestion. 

Just want to add a note: I2NSF only deals with rule-set/policy for treating packets/flows traversing through NSF. Therefore, the I2NSF polices would be much simpler, which doesn't need to deal with network wide policies or user policies. 

Linda


-----Original Message-----
From: Aldo Basile [mailto:[e-mail]] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 5:43 AM
To: DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA; Linda Dunbar
Cc: [e-mail]; John Strassner
Subject: Re: [I2nsf] Service Layer Policies - Post 0: note structure

Dear all,

I agree it is not worth considering the whole PCIM or PCIMe models and 
suggested implementations. They are too complex to implement and 
maintain and far from being perfect (John Strassner's Posts 0/1 are much 
more precise references to PCIM issues).

However, I think PCIM/PCIMe are excellent starting points for the design 
of the an information model, thus they can be used for I2NSF as well.

In my experience, all the policy-related concepts that one may need 
during such a design phase can be described by referring to 
PCIM/PCIMe-defined concepts (regardless of the way they are represented, 
classes, associations, association classes), concepts that PCIM/PCIMe 
miss, and concepts that are not correctly/optimally represented in 
PCIM/PCIMe.

In the SECURED project (and before in the PoSecCo project), PCIM/PCIMe 
have been considered as starting point to design the information and 
data models (which are now similar but not equal), while the actual 
implementation of the repositories and management tasks have been 
completely detached from PCIM/PCIMe (we had indeed a bad experience in 
fully agreeing with PCIM during a previous POSITIF project).

Therefore, it is probably worth considering the 'refinement' of the 
I2NSF requirements (which, to the best of my knowledge are presented 
here https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/i2nsf/charter/, please correct me 
if I'm wrong) to a set of more formal/precisely defined requirements and 
probably also inputs from use cases.

Only at that point it would be possible to precisely understand what we 
can reuse from existing (de facto) standards or models.


Regards,
Cataldo



On 08/12/2015 10:37, DIEGO LOPEZ GARCIA wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I support this. I think it is good to be aligned with common usage of
> terms, unless there are very good reasons to do otherwise.
>
> Just for the record, we are collecting some of the (already mature)
> results of the SECURED project policy efforts into a document we will
> contribute anytime soon. I hope we will be well aligned with John's ideas.
>
> Be goode,
>
>> On 7 Dec 2015, at 22:25 , Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]
>> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>
>> John,
>> Thank you very much for structuring the discussion. This is very helpful.
>> Maybe I am jumping ahead. For Post 5,  the "object" currently used in
>> I2NSF framework is same as the  "Condition" in PCIM to describe the
>> constraints. If no one disagree, I propose to align with PCIM, i.e.
>> call it "Subject-Condition-Action-Function".
>> Regards,
>> Linda
>> *From:*I2nsf [mailto:[e-mail]]*On Behalf Of*John Strassner
>> *Sent:*Sunday, December 06, 2015 7:00 PM
>> *To:*[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>> *Subject:*[I2nsf] Service Layer Policies - Post 0: note structure
>> The I2NSF framework draft mentions PCIM (RFC3060) and PCIMe (RFC3460)
>> as possible candidates for guiding the policy structure that can be
>> mapped to the Capability Layer's "Subject-Object-Action-Function"
>> paradigm.
>> During IETF94, I expressed discomfort with the above paradigm.
>> However, this is a complex subject, and is more easily understood by
>> breaking this up into smaller discussions. Here is the order of notes
>> that I will post:
>>    Post 0:  this post
>>    Post 1:  problems in using PCIM
>>    Post 2:  problems in using PCIMe
>>    Post 3:  differentiating between groups and roles
>>    Post 4:  differentiating between context, constraints, and conditions
>>    Post 5:  specific worries about the
>> "Subject-Object-Action-Function" paradigm
>>    Post 6:  proposed replacement policy structure
>> Posts 1 and 2 clarify the problems in using PCIM and PCIMe,
>> respectively, which I volunteered to do.
>> Posts 3 and 4 are fundamental to posts 5 and 6, as they represent
>> software building blocks that are critical for designing and
>> implementing Service Policies in a scalable and robust manner. These
>> also expand on points in posts 1 and 2.
>> Post 5 is the heart of the manner, but can't really be tackled until
>> the preceding posts were done. Post 6 builds on the previous posts.
>> regards,
>> John
>> --
>> regards,
>> John
>> _______________________________________________
>> I2nsf mailing list
>> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2nsf
>
> --
> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
> Telefonica I+D
> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/
>
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> Tel:    [phone]
> Mobile: [phone]
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