Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF proposal development process
Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> Thu, 22 January 2015 18:06 UTC
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 19:05:52 +0100
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From: Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>
To: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
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Cc: "ianaplan@ietf.org" <ianaplan@ietf.org>, John Curran <jcurran@istaff.org>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF proposal development process
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sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos. On 22 Jan 2015 18:25, "Bernard Aboba" <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> wrote: > > John Curran said: > > "That's an excellent question, but even if the stated answer were "yes" > I'm not certain its reasonable to rely (or expect) each member of the > ICG to review the discussion in this portion of the community in order > to obtain a thorough understanding of the arguments contrary to Richard's > assertions of process issues... " > > [BA] A summary of process from authoritative parties might be useful. But it would also be useful to point out that we are talking about process concerns relating to requirements for legal work that hasn't yet been completed by an organization (the IAOC) distinct from the IANAPLAN WG. > Just to be clear using a scenario; the recently submitted numbers proposal coordinated by the CRISP team included requirements/principle that their agreement (contract/mou) should reflect. However the community/CRISP also recognised that it's not it's role to draft the actual text of the contract but that of the legal team. >From your statement above, you seem to be implying that the IANAPLAN WG cannot even act in a manner similar to CRISP in this context. If that is the case then it may make adequate sense to appreciate that the working group charter may indeed be missing a few lines as it defeat the purpose of organising a community process if the community developed proposal can be overruled by a few set of people (IAOC). > Until the legal work has been done and there are proposed contractual arrangements to analyze, we are talking about process objections to requirements for arrangements that do not yet exist, within a WG that was not chartered to handle the legal work. > Looks like you are implying that IAOC is actually doing a legal analysis of the current WG proposal and will get back for to this WG for recommendation. If that is the case then I think that is fair enough. Thanks > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:22 PM, John Curran <jcurran@istaff.org> wrote: >> >> On Jan 21, 2015, at 7:59 PM, Brian E Carpenter < brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: >> > It would be very tedious to have to repeat on the icg forum all the >> > explanations of how Richard's concern misunderstands the IETF rough >> > consensus process and ignores this WG's conscious preference not >> > to address hypothetical future legal issues when we already have IETF >> > organs chartered to do so. Can we assume the ICG members can see these >> > explanations without their being repeated? >> >> That's an excellent question, but even if the stated answer were "yes" >> I'm not certain its reasonable to rely (or expect) each member of the >> ICG to review the discussion in this portion of the community in order >> to obtain a thorough understanding of the arguments contrary to Richard's >> assertions of process issues... hence, my posting of a brief assessment >> as I see it, and leads me also to believe that a statement from a more >> authoritative party (e.g. the WG chairs, IESG, or the IAB) highlighting >> the main arguments might be prudent. There's no doubt that preparation >> of such would be tedious, and hence the effort required to do so should >> be weighed against the IETF's view of the importance of the task at hand. >> >> /John >> >> Disclaimer: my views alone. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ianaplan mailing list >> Ianaplan@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ianaplan > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ianaplan mailing list > Ianaplan@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ianaplan >
- [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF pro… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John C Klensin
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John C Klensin
- [Ianaplan] You told us not to trust you anymore [… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Russ Housley
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… JFC Morfin
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Jefsey
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] Process concern regarding the IETF… JFC Morfin